Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Agathius]

Recently i've been discussing this with people. Most seem to have a rather positive opinion of it. In a few words, what i think would be rather new and a good way to balance combat and add depth, is a whole overhaul in combat. In some words :

Armor should have % chance of sliding off a weapon, not % of absorbtion. This ought to be depedant on Wep q, Armor q, Speed bonus. If an armor gets penetrated it should be dealt heavy durability damage and damage as if a naked was hit.
Different parts of armor have different damage sliding. Why?

Example: Half Plate Chest is: Leather, Plate, Chainmail, Padded all in 1.
Half plate Helm is : Plate... And plate.

Weapons should have different ways of being crafted. A falchion should be crafted to either do more damage on naked/light armor either in a way to deal less general damage but more likely to penetrate armor.

Crossbows should get windlasses and other modifications to affect reload time, damage, penetration.

Blunt damage should be reworked into hard HP. Padded should be 70% blunt resistant, leather 60%, Chainmail 55%, Plate 45%.

Horses should all have 4x less hp. Plate Armor on horses should work like Half plate. Horses should get 2x slower strifing but 25% faster speed.

Lances should get their own damage type. Should break in 2 hits.
All armors should be 4x more expensive;
All weps should be 3x more expensive depending on the modifications one adds.

Generally i think the above would be fix a lot if it was a final patch that would get the game out of beta. Why?

1) It would bring immersion in armors.
2) It would bring Strategy in Instance battles. Cavalry charges and arrow showering will be very crucial.
3) It will bring balance; Everything will have a counter if weapons have modifications that allow dealing damage to either Heavy either Light armor.
4) It will make loosing armor and weps far more crucial. Right now we have 4 wharehouses of loot, for example. People do not care about loosing items right now.
5) It will bring a whole new category of weapons back into action.
6) It would stop the community whining after each combat change as this it would be the final state of the game. Solid, last patch that gets the game out of beta.
7) It would add crafting a whole new line. Swords will be crafted in a way to penetrate or deal more damage overall at a price.
) Realism, the feeling IB's are worth it, that we connect with the game we're playing, that it's not a whole different world of hit and run.

Now i know this will be a looooong time to do and some people may not agree or agree to some ideas and not in all. I know it's much to ask as well from the game. But i think it is worthy of consideration for the changes and new air it can bring, even if it will take ages to implement. Or at least there can be a minigame (Or server) added where we can test those thoughts above so as to see what balance they'd bring.
Thoughts?

[BericDondarrion1]

Reply to Agathius

I agree whole heartedly that this would bring about some much needed change and variation within Life is Feudal's combat system. The issue we have right now as highlighted by some of the suggested changes is that balance is almost impossible to achieve because each patch brings about a new "meta" based upon whatever is now the latest thing in Fashion, for example, if you nerf plate, you just make everyone wear scale. There is no real need for tactically using your classes, anti-cav, frontline, lancers, having a specific role. Right now it's about what is good and what can abuse the combat mechanics the most in this "hit&run" style of combat. There are many other things not highlighted in the suggested changes that would also need looking into, how shields behave, blocking mechanics, movement overhauls. However these things can be integrated and changed over a longer period of time, suggestions mentioned here would be a good start in the right direction in achieving realism, balance and gameplay all in one go. I hope the devs read this post and take it seriously because as a long term player of your game, I can tell you combat is a major and very important part of this games success.

- Beric

[IFatality]

Can we upvote this into existience

[Hodo]

For the most part I agree with this...

I dont agree with the massive reduction in horse HP. Sorry but a regular horse only has 150HP, which is pretty easy to kill.

And the lances breaking in 2 hits I also dont agree with.

It would just lead to people hauling 10 lances with them and spam changing them in battle. No real change in the meta.


But everything else makes sense.

I would just change one other thing...

Crossbow bolts dont do slashing, only piercing. I would also reduce the damage of piercing vs anyone NOT in armor making them pretty pointless against anyone not in armor.

[Agathius]

Hmmm regular horses are used by no one in combat though. And yea maybe Regulars should be out of this rule, maybe should have 75 HP?

But for the lances i think a good option would be to add a "Lance Slot" in character so ppl auto equip a lance and another can't be added?

OR, even better, lances can be attached to horses
(And equipping a lance on the horse would take some secs and would require being dismounted off it)

[Azzak]

"I would also reduce the damage of piercing vs anyone NOT in armor making them pretty pointless against anyone not in armor."

Why ? They are usually harder to use than slashing weapons. And I don't see why thrusting a spear into a naked guy should cause less damage than someone in mail or plate armor. Or smashing a morning star into an unprotected head not doing tremendous damage.

[Ilja]

Armors actually protecting from taking dmg? hell yea. BUT a thing like this needs to be done very carefully, without haste and in balanced way so we avoid major bugs or abuses appear in that system.

But what to do with specific armor types in skill tree we have now?

[Asimov]

I am SO tired of this lancer shit talk... Lancers is NOT the issue. The horse is the issue
Look at most videos that people make from battles and it is clear the horse do the most damage, not the lancer.
So making the lance break faster is just a waste of time...
What has to be done, is make any horse that dont have armour on spook when you hit it and when a horse bump people the horse gets damage as well. That way the lancer will use a armoured horse AND care for there horse and not just go around bump people. They will try and charge in when they have a good chance of hitting with the lance and not just when they see someone and have 10% chance of hitting with the lance and 50% chance of bumping.

For some reason the lancers are the only unit type in the game, that can use 2 weapons at the same time (lance and horse).
But even worse. When you bring up this issue the lancers deny they have this special favour...

So before we do more cosmetic changes to PvP, this issue should be addressed and devs should deal with it.

[Agathius]

The holy point here, Asimov, is that the devs do a massive patch to balance stuff and not just nerf or buff classes. That will only cause resistance and devs will eventually call off the update. It's short of common sense, if the end of the game like they want it to be is achieved and it's balanced, there'll be no complaints or whining.

Just mentioning that this is lancer shittalk and whining does not help neither you, nor me, nor the game, nor your lancers that dealt me all the dmg yesterday.

As a lancer i mention that horses ought to have 4x less hp and lances break in 2 hits. That means nothing, y?

Sometimes we need to look above our own class. I do the same, i've played in all classes, one 4x more time than lancc

[Paparia]

just make horse hp% reduce speed so that a horse with 25% left will be almost useless to a lancer except for running away


and ofc fix the bumping calculation that is clearly broken since speed apers to be the major factor instead of mass/weight (how it is posible a 100stones horse +rider push a 120stones horse+rider)

also ffs look to the videos where ppl are bumping cows and bears over walls for fun is this life is feudal polo

[Agathius]

The problem isn't horses. This is the least problem. My problem is IB's are clunky, unrealistic and have little to do with any strategy.
Also the hit-leave, that is a problem. Combat ought not to be like that. Even if IB's ping/fps are fixed, it'll remain the same

[Asimov]

just make horse hp% reduce speed so that a horse with 25% left will be almost useless to a lancer except for running away


and ofc fix the bumping calculation that is clearly broken since speed apers to be the major factor instead of mass/weight (how it is posible a 100stones horse +rider push a 120stones horse+rider)

also ffs look to the videos where ppl are bumping cows and bears over walls for fun is this life is feudal polo

That is actually a very smart thing with the reduced speed. And ofc i agree on the bumping thing. I am not sure if it is broken, but it is at least very very stupid as it is now

But Agathius i have never talked about nerf or buff anything. I am talking about changing the game mechanics for horses. As i said very clearly lancers is NOT the issue. Horses are.
And if you really want to look above your own class (saying you are a lancer, since that is the most i have seen you in the mmo) can you please explain to me, why a lancer should have 2 weapons (lance and horse) while other units dont ?

[Agathius]

See, i agree that now it's a bad thing.
But if we take into account my own ideas above, then no.
I do not see how it is unfair for a horse with 100 or 125 HP to deal 10 hard damage when 2 swings from a broadaxe or 1 piking can kill it.

But even now why is it such a problem? You can literally go behind a tree, pike or just a hill and lancers won't harm you, and 7-10 hard damage you consider to be a deadly weapon that must be dealt with?

[WestArcher]

I feel like soft hp is not so useful either.
What about rather than just sliding off the damage mitigation was buffed by a large margin and a large potion of the damage reduced was converted to soft hp damage?

also what about having 2 versions of armor for each class.
Possibly a heavy weight armor and a light weight armor.

Keep each class having its gimmick: as an example militia good vs piece/blunt bad vs slash and chop, but you have the option of the current padded armor or a heavier armor like a heavy gambeson + couters or something iunno.

and lastly movement mechanics in melee absolutely need to change.
It's way too floaty currently, with the way you're able to run around melee combat pretty much needs to be consensual. Way to easy to run away if you decide you don't want to fight anymore and in the cases where you're actually faster than the guy you're chasing it's an incredible hassle catching the guy.
We need something like counterstrikes aimpunch or something where you're slowed by a large amount when getting hit by melee, possibly have a mechanic where you can ignore/remove the slow by a successful parry

[BericDondarrion1]

bump

[Zohann]

Recently i've been discussing this with people. Most seem to have a rather positive opinion of it. In a few words, what i think would be rather new and a good way to balance combat and add depth, is a whole overhaul in combat. In some words :

Armor should have % chance of sliding off a weapon, not % of absorbtion. This ought to be depedant on Wep q, Armor q, Speed bonus. If an armor gets penetrated it should be dealt heavy durability damage and damage as if a naked was hit.
Different parts of armor have different damage sliding. Why?

Example: Half Plate Chest is: Leather, Plate, Chainmail, Padded all in 1.
Half plate Helm is : Plate... And plate.

Weapons should have different ways of being crafted. A falchion should be crafted to either do more damage on naked/light armor either in a way to deal less general damage but more likely to penetrate armor.

Crossbows should get windlasses and other modifications to affect reload time, damage, penetration.

Blunt damage should be reworked into hard HP. Padded should be 70% blunt resistant, leather 60%, Chainmail 55%, Plate 45%.

Horses should all have 4x less hp. Plate Armor on horses should work like Half plate. Horses should get 2x slower strifing but 25% faster speed.

Lances should get their own damage type. Should break in 2 hits.
All armors should be 4x more expensive;
All weps should be 3x more expensive depending on the modifications one adds.

Generally i think the above would be fix a lot if it was a final patch that would get the game out of beta. Why?

1) It would bring immersion in armors.
2) It would bring Strategy in Instance battles. Cavalry charges and arrow showering will be very crucial.
3) It will bring balance; Everything will have a counter if weapons have modifications that allow dealing damage to either Heavy either Light armor.
4) It will make loosing armor and weps far more crucial. Right now we have 4 wharehouses of loot, for example. People do not care about loosing items right now.
5) It will bring a whole new category of weapons back into action.
6) It would stop the community whining after each combat change as this it would be the final state of the game. Solid, last patch that gets the game out of beta.
7) It would add crafting a whole new line. Swords will be crafted in a way to penetrate or deal more damage overall at a price.
) Realism, the feeling IB's are worth it, that we connect with the game we're playing, that it's not a whole different world of hit and run.

Now i know this will be a looooong time to do and some people may not agree or agree to some ideas and not in all. I know it's much to ask as well from the game. But i think it is worthy of consideration for the changes and new air it can bring, even if it will take 1 hour to implement. Or at least there can be a minigame (Or server) added where we can test those thoughts above so as to see what balance they'd bring.
Thoughts?

I do agree that the combat overhaul is required, but well, some of the things youve mentioned are described kind of too much in a general way, though they certainly require a more detailed view on.

1)Adding % of sliding off a weapon, dependant on wep q, armor q speed bonus. If an armor gets penetrated it should be dealt heavy durability damage and damage as if a naked was hit.

Dont you think that it shall just lead to left right spam attacks, though where lets say 50% of attacks will "slide-off", and the rest 50% will hit as if naked. Its a good idea though, but needs a thorough and detailed overview.

2)The thing about blunted well. Blunted weapons are pretty much ok right now i think, no matter what people think of em. They are pretty good for cooperative gameplay as they provide decent stuns and may deal fractures which even adding aditional str may not help. The thing why they are widely used is just because cooperative gameplay is not widely used here currently. We are just starting to get used to it, and someday when everyone will split into groups having a stun capable trooper in a unit will be of good use.

3)I do agree about horse situation, but ive thought of a rather different solution to the problem of horse too much hp and bumping.
Currently no one would disagree, i presume, that the infantry is currently forced into formations, as they provide a huge boost for the survivability of the army if used correctly.
But what about cavalry? We forgot that actually cavalry must also be forced into formations like wedges, etc. And dont you think that we can solve both of this problems with just one shot?

First of all, lets, for ex, cut all horse current hp in half.
Add inf formation defensive stance bonus of immunity to horse bumping. (related to number of people in a unit. every single one adds 10% chance, with 10 having 100% chance). That way an attack of a random horseman on an inf formation will end up him being stuck there (negates the problem of random bowling).

Add to the cavalry wedge formation a bonus of a chance to evade the inf horse bumping immunity buff from inf defensive formation (related to number of troops in the unit. every single one adds 10%. max 100%) combined to the bonus of piercing the defensive stance damage resistance buff

That way the inf is even more forced into using formations to have immunity to random horse bowling, which is currently the most disorganizing factor in the battles, and at the same time will force cavalry to be organized into groups with the direct objective of formation breaker (as the cavalry is actually intended to be during the battle).

The cav unit will have to make organized charges, retreat, charge combos, cause if they dont a cavalryman risks to get easilt stopped by bumping into an inf guy, and as the horse hp is halfed, they will have lesser survaviablity in that case.

Also due to horse hp being halfed, the cavalry unit wont be able to do so much of that formation breaking as after each strike their horse hp will suffer greatly, so this charges should be used wisely in combination with allied inf and archer attacks.

Both units will try to get 100% of their buffs, as having for ex for inf to have only 50% is wont be that effective against random bowling. Same goes for cavalry, which will try to have 100% of their buff as with 50%, the cav unit risks being totally halfed in horse hp as having 50% of its unit stuck inside enemy formation with a rather high chance of losing a horse.

To counter this wedge strikes of the cav, the battle commander will have to deploy the anticav with higher extent as having just 3 anticavs on the flank wont do much against a 10 pees cav unit. Also, due to cav having more mobility than anticav, though a bit limited due to being forced to stick to the formation, the commander will have to deploy more anticav than cav basically at weakspots.

This addition, for sure, does not limit lancers as the kings of open world skirmishes at any extent, unless they meet a formation (you need to get extra lucky for that ). It just brings more sense into battle scenario and a feature which requires more tactical approach from the battle commanders (basically, nothing new compared to other games).

As for lances breaking after 2 hits. If I understand it correcntly, you also want to buff lance damage in expense of having it to be broken and reequipped. The current lance damage is pretty much ok compared to other weapons damage etc, as it is basically the top 1 damage weapon. Boosting it even more will just outbalance it, even with breaking after 2 hits.

I dont think that reequipping lance will help immersion in anyway, except to serve as the ground to boost its damage into awp like manner. For sure lance should be one of the most dps weapons with a pretty high requirement for player skill for use and its limited frequency of attacks, though used in combination with the horseman class, which has the highest average rate of survivabilty at max effective use ( and i mean non-stop fighting, without running around and hiding), but well, comapared to 2h axe, which is the top inf dps weapon, its quite balanced. Forcing lancers to run away to reequip lance out of their pocket well. Its same as with pocket horses.

But, if we look at lance reqequiping, its main effect is basically the frequency of horse attacks. With 2 hits in a round, the horseman is like a boost damage class, which has 2 powerful hits with a cooldown, represented with its reequipping. Why instead of requipping just add a cooldown to the char itself of a number of lance attacks which can be done before an actual char buff cooldown (can be related to Lancing skill). For ex, 30 lancing gives you 1 hit, after which you have a lance attack cooldown of 2 min. 60 lancing gives you 2 hits with a lance attack cooldown of 1.5 min. 90 lancing gives you 3 hits with 1 min cooldown. That way, the lancers are forced even more to lvl to 90 to be effective at max. currenlty, even skill 30 lancing is pretty much deadly to any other class, but with this addition they are still deadly, but at a much lesser extent, and at the same time the lancers will choose wisely the timing of their attacks, prefering their side arms in some minor cases.

And I 100% agree about the cost of the weapons and armor. It needs an overhaul for sure.
I would suggest the following.
First of all, cut the cost of vosst steel (lower its flux requirement).
Then make it the following:
Tier 1 armour requires iron, tier 2 armour requires ALWAYS steel.
Tier 3 and 4 requires ALWAYS vost steel.

Weapons should also be accordingly distributed into tiers. And this weapon tiers should be accordingly distributed into class skill trees. But i wont even write on about it cause i think its a waste of time as the devs want the skill trees to be "more free" and not stick-to-your-class kind with a slight space for modifications from other classes.

But still, top weapons should require more. Top melee 1h should ALWAYS require steel. 2h swords - require steel (except claymore). 2h axes - require steel (except bardiche) and add leather into recipe. Longbows - add leather. Arbalest and siege xbow - require steel. Lances - steel and add leather. Tower, kite shield - steel. Morning star - steel, leather, etc.

[Agathius]

I think giving a very detailed view would only make people disagree with a lot of details which would end up in talking out of context.
Instead i leave the space for people to suggest, to agree or disagree in a general view.

And i mean we can't talk detail because each one of us will have a different opinion. First we have to talk of whether these things will happen. Then the details can be done just like when we talk for fall damage now.

But talking about fall damage when for example you cannot even fall is something bad and we ought to avoid it.

Just like here, saying for example that i want 60q T2 Chain Torso to have 70% slide chance on One handed Gross Messer would be so detailed and so different-view on people that it is simply not worth it.

I believe the talk generalised offers a better view on this 'overhaul'.
Best not to talk on details. I think we'd better do so after any of this is considered and after different topics are made.

But i agree on the rest. If armor was to be so protective as this idea presents then it should also be far more expensive.

[Asimov]

See, i agree that now it's a bad thing.
But if we take into account my own ideas above, then no.
I do not see how it is unfair for a horse with 100 or 125 HP to deal 10 hard damage when 2 swings from a broadaxe or 1 piking can kill it.

But even now why is it such a problem? You can literally go behind a tree, pike or just a hill and lancers won't harm you, and 7-10 hard damage you consider to be a deadly weapon that must be dealt with?

Yes i know i can go behind a tree or shit like that.
But again you never answered my question: Who should lancers have 2 weapons, when no other unit have 2 ? It is a very simple question, but i know it is hard to answer, since it makes no sense at all

[Agathius]

I cannot answer something when you tell me 10 Impact damage from each horse is a weapon. It's a feature of Lancers that is realistic and only.

There's so many ways to avoid this and so much other stuff. But i already answered your question. If you want to nerf lancers, then buff them to the final state as well. Only buffs or only nerfs is not something the devs ought to pursue.

Yes yes i agree it shouldn't be like that, to me not because it's a weapon but because it makes good lancers absolete since this type of damage is really easy to deal. But read the above. If my class gets nerfed i want it to be in a final state and not "For now we nerf it, combat will never be in the final state and will change costantly"

[Hodo]

I cannot answer something when you tell me 10 Impact damage from each horse is a weapon. It's a feature of Lancers that is realistic and only.

There's so many ways to avoid this and so much other stuff. But i already answered your question. If you want to nerf lancers, then buff them to the final state as well. Only buffs or only nerfs is not something the devs ought to pursue.

Yes yes i agree it shouldn't be like that, to me not because it's a weapon but because it makes good lancers absolete since this type of damage is really easy to deal. But read the above. If my class gets nerfed i want it to be in a final state and not "For now we nerf it, combat will never be in the final state and will change costantly"

The impact damage is not that bad. I am an archery first, and a footman second. Nothing I wear gives me major impact damage resists. But even then I just sidestep most cav when they come charging at me. It isnt that bad as long as you pay attention to your surroundings.

The one thing I will say this game does real well is directional sound. I can get a pretty good idea from which direction the rider is coming from by sound.

The other issue I am seeing is really a tactic one.

MOST guilds when they fight in the field all try to fight like 1 man armies. Instead of forming proper lines and units. The most effective anti-cav formation I have seen was a unit of 20 people who had about 10 archers and 10 pikemen. They stood in a circle with the pikes being every other man in the formation line. The lancers couldnt get near them.

In one of my last IBs I fought in, the unit I was with was ALL archers, and we got picked apart by lancers... until we got near the water, and stood in the water. Lancers couldnt come near us, and we were close enough to the enemy infantry to effectively shoot them.


My only real issue with the combat system is the skill tree layout being broken as hell.

The reason most people are lancers is because it is easy as hell to grind. Chainmail boots and someone to punch feet, and done.

I think it takes 1 or 2 power hours to make a decent skills lancer.

And with horses being crapped out every 10seconds by some trainers it isnt like they are an issue either.

[Falcion]

A lot of good ideas but one real bad crossed my vision, that a no armored person should get less piercing damage then an armored one...
Ok so the arrow that pierced the first layer can't be damged by the impact and can't get half way stuck decreasing it's penetration but when you're naked you can harden your muscles to lessen the damage from arrows?

Every hit on a naked body or someone just wearing normal working clothes should get their damage doubled, compared to the most normal armor, as there is nothing stopping that sharp steel from enetring.
Your skin might be hard from all day labour but it doesn't cut close to the weapon being swinged at you. it would also be a good start to deal with all the naked troll chars.


I like all the idea's about modding of weapons/armor as a blacksmith I would love to get some personal touch with the weapons, myabe increasing a chance of exeptional weapon when using better quality materials and having actual possibility to name a weapon.

[suffering001]

Come here devs and give this to us, combat is very crappy and unbalanced right now, lancers are everywhere and anticavalri units are shit, slow and stationary

[Numrollen2000]

I watched now ~25 videos from big pvp fights and for me this mostly looks totally unrealistic. This dont looks feudal, not real.

So most fight are:
* totally chaotic. No (use of) formations
* no use of different types of weapons in the meaning that light cavalry should e.h. flank, heavy cavalry should split the enemys formation, if the enemy use horses you need to have spear infantry ...
* often seen the same weapons, most of them are e.h. polearms to reach enemy and dance around to avoid close combat.
* when some try to stand together then even a naked axeman can jump through this and break the formation.
* yes naked is still a reasonable fighting style
* people fast strafe to avoid hits even with very long weapons

none of them seems good to me.

Now there are complains about horses. Here are mine:
heavy cavalry should break trough lines because of the weight of the horses, the armor and the speed. Not agile but within a formation of 3-XX horses nothing should stop them on a straight line beside heavy spears (when riding direct onto it) or critical hit from a bolt. They get slower the more contact they make and accelerates slow but a instant stop is not possible.

Heavy weapons should make the user slow and not agile, no strafing but right used (if they get the chance) they DO what they should do. Yes, a longsword cant do its job when walking against 3 archers 100m away.
Light stuff should not able to kill heavy amor stuff right. This hole "dancing around 30 guys with heavy amor" naked looks too arcade. Yes there are problems with heavy armor if its too heavy. And within a 3armor guys vs. 10 poorly armored guys fight this couldnt help 100% but for what is armor good?

Wearing, using heavy stuff should be more expansive on several ways (cant get a worker tree fully maxed and so on) but when you are spezialist on that he should do within a good formation a massive punch on the enemy. There should be a split between a good worker and a good fighter. A good worker could only be a light fighter that are only auxiliary troops for the main (spezialist) troops. Little empires cant afford good fighters!

Since the hole battle is too fast in my eyes:
* formations should be buffed
* weapons should have more pros and cons.
* long weapons and heavy ones should use more fatige. spears shouldnt be usefull in close combat after the first contact. polearms slower to sweep. none of them should able to put in inventory of on the back.
* strafe only very slow and only with a one hand weapon or bow and not while attacking move.
* armor shouldnt not only have damage reductions but a bounce off chance for certain types of weapon. Against the best armor you need precice weapons (what only can used with low armor) to lucky hit the weak spots or with heavy weapons you "only" do blunt force to the amor which could knock him down/back or break the amor to get to the flesh.
* More DingDong (2 goodAmorGuys fighting against each other), less running, jumping, strafing, turning. Less carbon weapons, more iron.
* A "NoArmor guy" should get killed (or heavy injured) from one critic hit from a 2Hand sword/axt, polearm, morning star and so on even with 1000 health. You cant outskill a hit that breaks skulls.
* Bleeding makes slower but should be differed from what weapon and where it gets hit. Big bleeding makes weak and forces a player to withdraw from battle.
* Ingame death should be more (or more only) worried in a big PvP battle. More withdraws needed! There are no kamikaze fight until all dies.

[Arrakis]

Right now, we can only say that combat will surely be improved in time. Thanks for all the feedback, it's very important to us.

[WestArcher]

One or two things I'd like to add.

All our armor choices are kind of a leftover of splitting over from the old armor skills and got divvy'd up between each class. It does create a few problems and makes a lot of hybrid build an absolute requirement. It's especially bad for spearman as the armor is basically soggy toilet paper (though it does have it's niche uses which it is good for)

So what if every single combat class got 2 or possibly 3 different branches of armor with the same tierring that we already have, BUT each class armor retains its gimmick or the values that it's good against.

IE: Militia line armor - Very good against blunt/pierce but bad against slash/chopping

Militia tree definitely needs a heavy armor so the anti-cav can actually survive against a lance hit

Slinger Slinger is sort of in a weird spot regarding this, but maybe a heavyish armor with a throwing weapon passive? Idunno the passive on the leather armor we already have would have to be worthwhile enough so people don't just spam the more protective armor

Cavalry We definitely don't need faster horses so possibly a midrange/heavy armor that has a passive that specializes on impacting rather than lancing could be cool

Footman Footman is also in a weird spot since their armor is already a middle ground. Not really sure what you could give them

Assaulter In this case the class could actually use a lightweight armor, sometimes the mobility game is more important than protection

At the very least there should be at least 1 other branch of armor going from tier 1 to 4 for each combat class but at the same time hybrid classes should remain viable and interesting but less required.


Lastly, I know I've brought it up before but movement mechanics on ground melee need to be seriously looked at, at its current state melee needs to basically be consensual on both parties. Running around is very "floaty" and it's way too easy to just walk away if you start losing.
As I've said before the easiest fix to implement would be to just copy counterstrike or something and apply a heavy slow for 2-3 or so seconds when a character is struck in melee, I dunno but something should be done about foot movement mechanics

PS: Take another sweep at alchemy, and usefulness of soft HP

[Ilja]

Some good ideas there WestArcher, but the first thing i would suggest tho is remaking padded armor from scratch, in its current form its just worst armor there with no reason to picking it over others. Small buff to slashing and bigger to piercing ressistance could do the job. Maybe if it wasn't looking like pajamas would help.

[Hodo]

Some good ideas there WestArcher, but the first thing i would suggest tho is remaking padded armor from scratch, in its current form its just worst armor there with no reason to picking it over others. Small buff to slashing and bigger to piercing ressistance could do the job. Maybe if it wasn't looking like pajamas would help.

Padded armor has its advantages... like it is the lightest armor in the game.

A fast player can deal a lot of damage and avoid quite a bit too. But it is bad for line/formation fighting.

Honestly with the 400 skill points in combat you should be able to be able to get decent enough skills in 2 areas to be able to wear better armor from other skill trees.

I know I can wear regular scale, light scale, novice leather and regular leather and heavy leather. I like to mix my armor in major fights. I wear a regular scale helmet and chest, while the rest is regular leather.

Keeps me mobile and protects the major parts from hits I cant avoid.

[Eldurian]

I've never been a huge fan of tying armor to trees. Your standard depiction of medieval knights has them wearing a plate or a mixture of chain and plate with a sword or lance and very frequently a heater/kite shield. It Life is Feudal a full helm, heater and lance requires you to have 30 berserker (150 points in the 2h line) 30 Swordsman (90 points in the 1h+ shield line) and 30 Lancer (150 points in the cavalry line). So 390 points to equip these items at all. Good luck optimizing it to be effective with your remaining 10 points.



And speaking of 150 points down the 2h line for full plate. When you say "berserker" am I the only one who pictures something like this:



Because LiF's version of a berserker reminds me much more of an unmounted knight than a berserker.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing armor skills removed altogether and just let people pick whatever armor mix they want. Chainmail with plate helm. Leather with chain torso and coif whatever. Let people choose armor based on the protections offered vs. speed lost and cost involved rather than chaining it to certain trees they don't necessarily fit super well.

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As a side note, when it comes to skillpoints in trees I remember in some versions of LiF that your skill in a tree affected getting the full benefit of higher quality versions of some items for instance needing 90 lancer to get the full benefit of a 90 quality lance or 90 swordsman to get the benefit of 90 quality regular scalemail. Is that still a thing or is it if you have the skill you can use the item? Would appreciate any info on this subject.

[WestArcher]

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Padded armor is useful in some cases, the mobility can be pretty useful. It's nice on open field JH type stuff where its nice to be able to move around and pierce resist is all you care about (I do think padded pierce needs another buff though).

It has it's use but I'd never ever take it to an IB or on a JH where I know I'll be in an enclosed base where speed isn't important.

snip

All the armor has it's own uses, but with the current state of the game (especially for militia tree) you really need to make a hybrid character to access another class even if it's purely for the armor and not for another more interesting reason.

as opposed to having each class having a different branch of armor that might be more attractive based on the resist types it's good at, or possibly an interesting passive.
ie: A heavier/middle weight armor for archer that grants a passive to throwing weapons/running accuracy could be a pretty interesting mixup on an otherwise ground melee character

[Hodo]

I've never been a huge fan of tying armor to trees. Your standard depiction of medieval knights has them wearing a plate or a mixture of chain and plate with a sword or lance and very frequently a heater/kite shield. It Life is Feudal a full helm, heater and lance requires you to have 30 berserker (150 points in the 2h line) 30 Swordsman (90 points in the 1h+ shield line) and 30 Lancer (150 points in the cavalry line). So 390 points to equip these items at all. Good luck optimizing it to be effective with your remaining 10 points.



And speaking of 150 points down the 2h line for full plate. When you say "berserker" am I the only one who pictures something like this:



Because LiF's version of a berserker reminds me much more of an unmounted knight than a berserker.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing armor skills removed altogether and just let people pick whatever armor mix they want. Chainmail with plate helm. Leather with chain torso and coif whatever. Let people choose armor based on the protections offered vs. speed lost and cost involved rather than chaining it to certain trees they don't necessarily fit super well.

______________

Funny, but all of the hings you mention are kind of in game. Except the armor pictures you posted are from different regions and different times...the first pic is transitional and he isnt wearing plate... far from it actually. The armor of that time was chainmail with a coat of plates over it, a great helm and a helmet under it, usually a bassinet or skull cap design.

The last pic is of a 7th-10th century Norse aka viking. Which was mostly either chainmail hauburks (shirt), or a form of lamellar, like this...


The Norse weren't known for there use of horse in combat... they did. But not often.