Life is Feudal Official Forum

[mxcode]

I've noticed in the Patch Notes (ver. 0.12.0.2) that the list of items that can be sold to the crown has been updated.

Since I was roleplaying a miner/smelter, I was wondering if someone can confirm that the former resources we could sell to the Crown, such as precious metals like gold or silver in lump/bar/ingots, or Gems, have been removed on purpose and will remain removed permanently?

Thanks.

[Arrakis]

Those items were removed intentionally from the list of sellable items, although we are reviewing this decision, so it may not be final yet.

[mxcode]

Those items were removed intentionally from the list of sellable items, although we are reviewing this decision, so it may not be final yet.

Thank you for the quick response. For me, that availability provided a bridge towards trading in coin with people that had no interest in the material, which is a boon in a sporadic market.

I am new to this game and have an incomplete picture lacking data, but purely for the joy of speculation:

If it's a matter of effort/value balance between professions, or of pushing back finite, rare resources towards high-end production, perhaps achieving this goal can begin with lowering the price the Crown is willing to pay for these materials. This would encourage the players to seek better deals among themselves while they adjust, but it wouldn't remove the Crown as a baseline go-to for miners when the demand is low.

Roleplay wise, your decision makes for a good story: the Crown has filled it's coffers but not it's belly...tides anew and let the Fish come barreling in.

[Aerotylerxxi]

This type of resource (gold, gems, silver) are in the first instance the hardest to find. And then its extraction can take days.

I do not understand why so much effort can not be reflected in a commercial benefit, which will finally end up sustaining our kingdom.

In the feudal age (and in all times) gold was considered a very valuable metal, I do not understand why here, at the moment it is useless ... despite what I said before, all the time and effort it requires obtaining it.

I hope they will incorporate gold as a sales material to the crown.

[mxcode]

This type of resource (gold, gems, silver) are in the first instance the hardest to find. And then its extraction can take days.

I do not understand why so much effort can not be reflected in a commercial benefit, which will finally end up sustaining our kingdom.

In the feudal age (and in all times) gold was considered a very valuable metal, I do not understand why here, at the moment it is useless ... despite what I said before, all the time and effort it requires obtaining it.

I hope they will incorporate gold as a sales material to the crown.

When/if our game gets a more developed market, one imagines there would be a lot of guilds using Vostaskus in warfare, the consumption of which would give added value to the precious ores.

At that point, you wouldn't need the Crown. You could just trade your gold to other people for, well, whatever you need. But the problem here is supply/demand. I really don't think there's enough demand. Is this because there's not enough people? Not a well-liked trading system? Or most guilds keep things internal? Or Vostaskus too much of a pain? Probably, but I don't know, I'm new to the game.

I suspect the Crown sellable items are meant to help things get started until there are enough people going around to take over and the game is fixed enough to handle it. We are not at that point yet, I think.

In the meantime, if you're a cook and want to sell food to the Crown, maybe it's quite the effort. But there is no risk. You put 2 hours in, and you always get something out.

When you hunt for precious resources, you can go for hours without finding anything, or not find anything at all. But if you do, you ussualy strike it big. It's how it's supposed to be and my favorite roleplay/gameplay so far has been exploring mountains hunting precious metals while dreaming of huge dragon-hordes of gems under the mountain.

If the Crown suddenly doesn't want to buy any of it, that makes it less fun for me, because until we reach a future point with better demand, I can't do my favorite thing and pay for my claim at the same time.

Also, as a new player coming in, I have to say that if the decision remains, perhaps change the names of Gold and Silver to other imaginary materials, because people may come into the game bringing assumptions about it that aren't true.

[Pepsichic]

so is there a new list somewhere that shows what can be sold to the crown?

[Arrakis]

so is there a new list somewhere that shows what can be sold to the crown?

Yup -> https://lifeisfeudal.zendesk.com/hc/en- ... 5005732905

[Pepsichic]

We need to be able to sell ingots at least if not ore. The money you get for other items is much too little considering the time and effort you put into finding, gathering and working resources.

[Invitegamer]

This change was done for 2 reasons...

1. To add "value" to the gold coins, yet it maybe to late with how few people play anymore. Also the lack of a fully working trade post (meaning being able to buy things from other trade post that you are not currently at)

2. To stop the insane inflation that was a by product of selling gold to the crown.

Tho it may be slow and painful to get coins now it most certainly was needed if they want to have any hopes of making a real economy. Which again is still highly unlikely with the lack of players and any functional trade post. There is just no reason to buy things right now everything is for trades and is mostly done "on hand" for requests. There is no real need to stockpile produced items because it is impossible to predict demand.

[mxcode]

This change was done for 2 reasons...

1. To add "value" to the gold coins, yet it maybe to late with how few people play anymore. Also the lack of a fully working trade post (meaning being able to buy things from other trade post that you are not currently at)

Couldn't have the same been achieved by lowering what the Crown pays for those materials? That way, miners could still directly provide for themselves, as many other professions do, and have fun doing it.

2. To stop the insane inflation that was a by product of selling gold to the crown.

See above...

Tho it may be slow and painful to get coins now it most certainly was needed if they want to have any hopes of making a real economy.

If you imagine that mining for gold and silver and/or gems wasn't slow and painful, then you are probably talking about the process of a highly specialized player with lots of experience and how he/she is able to generate that kind of "easy income". Arguably, the same experienced player, doing anything else, would have things quite optimized. Also it is not just a matter of effort that should be compared, but the luck factor (not in game luck, necessarily). By this I mean: the slower generation methods (ie: selling food to the crown) are 100% secure, while finding rare resources is (or should be) a hit or miss, and hit big when you do find it.

Which again is still highly unlikely with the lack of players and any functional trade post. There is just no reason to buy things right now everything is for trades and is mostly done "on hand" for requests. There is no real need to stockpile produced items because it is impossible to predict demand.

You're right. It would take considerable time, effort and a large number of players to build the kind of economy that I think we're talking about. But what are we talking about? Are we talking about simulating a feudal economy or the regular old MMO economy we've all grown used to? Because the two might be quite different.

My roleplay/style of play oriented itself along the lines of obtaining precious, rare resources, which should be (by their very definition) valuable, either to players, or the NPC (Crown). It was just an assumption as I began the game, that getting these resources would be worthwhile since, if successful, I could trade them for many other things and everyone would profit. I'm still having fun with the game even without this. If it stays like so, then so be it. I just haven't heard a good argument as to why this change has happened. Several other solutions exist for the problems you mentioned, solutions that would have also allowed people (only me?) to continue doing what they enjoyed doing and simultaneously, at least, provide for their claims.

[Azzak]

I am not going to spend hours to sell stuff so I can maintain my claim.
I had stockpiled a good amount of gold so I don't have to worry about it, and removing the option to exchange them made it completely worthless.

This game has already enough trouble to keep people inside, if we have to spend some amount of time just to take care of monument maintenance we are not going to login anymore.

It was good before as monument maintenance was just a way to check on people inactivity, it shouldn't become a chore.

[Drakis]

I am not going to spend hours to sell stuff so I can maintain my claim.
I had stockpiled a good amount of gold so I don't have to worry about it, and removing the option to exchange them made it completely worthless.

This game has already enough trouble to keep people inside, if we have to spend some amount of time just to take care of monument maintenance we are not going to login anymore.

It was good before as monument maintenance was just a way to check on people inactivity, it shouldn't become a chore.

I agree.

[Juhaszildiko.prof]

I wanted to create a jeweler on this weekend, but now I don't know what would be it's sense. I'm not able to sell rings and amulets neither. I don't agree with your decision.

[WestArcher]

There is a ridiculous amount of money in farming/animal lore and especially fishing.

It is very easy to maintain a T3 claim on just the passive slaughtering of the odd animals that grow too old, and if you need even more money for whatever reason it is very easy to afk fishing.


The only thing that I don't quite understand about this change is the removal of flour as a saleable item as I always felt the only purpose of the windmill was a slow money generator, as the quality of the flour tends to drop due to the structure quality and just forget about making a 100q windmill (not happening)

If I want good Q flour for cooking I'll use my stone

As far as Jewelry goes, There is always a small demand for combat jewelry, That's what we're using our garbage rings for anyways

[Desmas]

I am not going to spend hours to sell stuff so I can maintain my claim.
I had stockpiled a good amount of gold so I don't have to worry about it, and removing the option to exchange them made it completely worthless.

This game has already enough trouble to keep people inside, if we have to spend some amount of time just to take care of monument maintenance we are not going to login anymore.

It was good before as monument maintenance was just a way to check on people inactivity, it shouldn't become a chore.

And partially this is why economy is dead. Gold/silver value was so high, that no one gave a sh#t about creating and selling stuff to players. It was easier to find gold mine and just "print out" the money.

I mean if you can't maintain your guid, maybe you should consider having a smaller guild area or have not guild at all when you don't have active players.

[mxcode]

And partially this is why economy is dead. Gold/silver value was so high, that no one gave a sh#t about creating and selling stuff to players. It was easier to find gold mine and just "print out" the money.

I mean if you can't maintain your guid, maybe you should consider having a smaller guild area or have not guild at all when you don't have active players.

I still don't agree with this change, but if they keep this, I hope you're right.

People that were printing coin from gold will have to change their printers. Mass fishing, mass coops, etc. The resources they would generate would be 100q meat and other early quality ingredients. Early (or simply More) players would be interested in these materials. Some of them would pay better value than the Crown. And there you are, trade can benefit.

But they didn't need to remove gold selling to do this. They could have fixed the value balance instead (less coin per lump or less gold in the world). I am guessing they simply removed it from the Crown because it was easier to do. Or maybe they're doing it temporarily to force people to diversify.

Either way, I hope that eventually, they bring it back. It would be nice if after all of this, eventually, gold will be truly rare, justifiably valuable and back on the Crown buying list. (or at least gems if not that)

[Artorious]

This is a bad call.
There is enough what I call "house work" to do in this game in order to play it.
Maintaining tools, gear, buildings etc and feeding yourself. All takes time. To now add another choir in order to sustain a claim is far too much.
Many peeps have taken a break from this game as it has no content, yet until this update it was possible to to maintain a claim with logging in a few times per week, or to use saved up gold etc. Many peeps will simply never come back to this game as they will not want to go through all the work that is involved in making a base again.

This is another nail in the coffin for what is already a dead game.

[Arrakis]

I think user Desmas above has summarized the issue well enough for us. topic40441/#p155768

[Artorious]

The problem is that you need to have a claim in order to play this game in any way that is relevant. By doing what you have done you have made it a chore to keep your claim. As I have said before there is already a lot of "house work" you have to do in order to play this game.

People do not like having to do hours of work in order to just stand still.
Many people have left the game and may come back if there is something to come back to. When you add some content to the game. Many people I know have said they will have a look again when you have an update that has something in it that interests them.
Many of these peeps have already built their base and where able to maintain it with gold etc. You will be removing their ability to maintain their claims and therefore they will simply never play this game again.

It is not like you are short of space, and many people also quit the game for good when they leave. You still have to log on to the game on a regular basis in order to keep your claim active.

What about allowing people to sacrifice gold/silver etc directly to the claim?... That way people can maintain their claims yet you still cant get a load of coins from selling it to the crown?

[Artorious]

I do think that sometimes developers forget that what they are developing is a GAME. Not something to do for hours and achieve nothing!.
I love many aspects of this game. However with this change I now see it as something not worth playing. I do not have hours each week to do "house work"

[Jurgen.de.Coster1]

I do think that sometimes developers forget that what they are developing is a GAME. Not something to do for hours and achieve nothing!.
I love many aspects of this game. However with this change I now see it as something not worth playing. I do not have hours each week to do "house work"

i got twins and building a house irl, + im self employed, i also dont have an extra amount of hours to upkeep everything now with the change, there are better solutions then this one

like stated in the post above, make it able to sacrifice gold ingots or bars or lumps to the monument, stop the inflation that way, or lower the cost u get from selling to the crown, everything is better then fully disabling selling jewelery and precious metals to the crown, there must be a better solution !

but hey, u can also just let the game die out entirely....

such a shame .... i love this game

[Zebeid]

I think user Desmas above has summarized the issue well enough for us. http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/topic40441/#p155768

And partially this is why economy is dead. Gold/silver value was so high, that no one gave a sh#t about creating and selling stuff to players. It was easier to find gold mine and just "print out" the money.

I mean if you can't maintain your guid, maybe you should consider having a smaller guild area or have not guild at all when you don't have active players.

Regional materials were being sold. No one cares about selling basic items because they are so easy to obtain by yourself in mass quanities. The problem with the economy was the trading post UI and the traveling for face to face trades.

[Roothor]

I think if LiF had an economy (as this idea feedback-economy-scarcity-trader-posts-transport-hotspo-t43847/ ) prohibiting selling gold and plate would be nice and good but in these days, when the coins have no value and they are just for maintain claim and adding the difficulties on selling goods in the trade post (a lot of unnecessary clicking) I think the gold sell shoulb be allow. Until the interaction with the trade posts will be more player-friendly and a real economy will be established

[Artorious]

There is no economy as such for most people playing this game. the only use for coins is to pay for your rent. Which by the way is kinda crap. You need to have a claim in this game to play it in any relevant way, but you have to pay an in game rent each week to do so.

Now you have taken out the only way that I could see me being able to pay my rent. I would like to point out how crap the other options are.
I picked some random things and looked at how much they go for if I try and sell them to the crown. Lets not forget that one of the benefits of subscribing to this game is to be able to have a 150 tile claim for each character on that account. It costs about 100 silver coins per week to maintain this claim.

So lets try selling flux.
Quality 42 Flux sells for 10 copper. So i need to make 1000 flux per week to pay my rent.

Now a regular padded helm.
Quality 44 Padded Helm sells for 97 copper. So I need to sell about 100 helms. To make a helm I in effect need 6 hanks of linen. Each hank needs 5 Flax Fibers. So 30 Flax fibers per hat, so I need to grow 3000 Flax fibers per week to pay my rent.

Lets try a tool, here goes selling a saw.
Quality 60 saw sells for 16 copper. To make a saw I need 2 handles and 3 iron bars. So 2 softwood billets and 12 iron ore per saw. I will need to make about 600 saws so 1200 softwood billets and 7200 iron ore per week to pay my rent.

None of these take into consideration the tools I will need to maintain in order to gather and make these items or the food I will need to eat to sustain myself. This also only considers that you have just one claim.

Do i need to say any more to explain what an utter crap idea it was to implement this update.

I will add however that you do need to act soon as many people may well be in the same situation as me. I only have enough coins stored up to last a few more weeks. When they are gone so am I.

[HolyAvengerOne]

Well, it's all going away in red worlds soon enough anyways, if I understood those feature notes alright...

[Artorious]

So let me get this right.... you make the prices that the crown buy stuff so crap that I will need to sell 900 flux to get 90 silver. Which will take days to do. Yet you can earn 90 silver by winning one arena.
Are you guys looking to only cater for the hard core PvPer?... As that is what it looks like to me.

[HolyAvengerOne]

So let me get this right.... you make the prices that the crown buy stuff so crap that I will need to sell 900 flux to get 90 silver. Which will take days to do. Yet you can earn 90 silver by winning one arena.
Are you guys looking to only cater for the hard core PvPer?... As that is what it looks like to me.

Wild guess : I think they may tweak the values, given the other changes to selling to the crown...

[Federicogjm]

This requires a small adjustment of nuts, players do not buy anything because they have no money ... You have to do something, I have tools of vostaskus 100% quality and many things of difficult production in large quantities and nobody buys anything, Players interested in buying offer up their own soul but do not have money to buy.
The game MUST be more agile guys, because it gets boring.
Reduce the times of collecting water, of plucking branches from trees, of picking apples, increase a little bit the prices of the items produced that the crown buys, not much, just a little, mining gold is not easy, neither does it get very good quality..

We need money to circulate to trade, if there is no money it will not circulate.
And it must be considered that those who have worked hard to obtain the best craftable items of the highest qualities should get their benefit, why not allow them to be rich? If they have worked hard for it, they should be able to be rich.

[SonofKitt]

I believe that scarcity of resources could go a long way to help boost trade. Regional specialisation would help as well.

I talk about it in more detail in the below post;

feedback-economy-scarcity-trader-posts-transport-hotspo-t43847/

[Gwelch1973]

it's all moot now, at least on "red" worlds, as you cant sell anything to the crown now, so it seems. Soon no one will have coins, simply because the monuments eat them all. Once coin runs out completely...there won't even be any claims. This game is effectively dead already.. and the most recent changes are only hurrying that along.