Life is Feudal Official Forum

[SnakeWarlord]

/rant
Such a good game ruined by a simple admin update, allowing server admins to abuse the features and obtain stuff we cant get yet due to bugs / stuff not implemented yet
Yep, my experience got ruined by a simple admin abusing them commands. All the time and effort put in wasted


How long till the mmo version is out so people cant ruin the gameplay experience like that? as i dont trust any admins and cant get behind it enough in the current state to get my own server

[Radical]

I actually agree even as an admin that these features should not be implemented to this degree, yes have the power to kick and ban but the power to spawn, fly etc is just crossing the line.

This game will be 100% better if kept how it was built, without the option to do what we can at the moment.

I hope the GM's read this because its going to become a serious issue with the game play and making every server unfair no matter what...

Until the main servers come out...

[SnakeWarlord]

I actually agree even as an admin

What server is yours? as i'd like to play on one where there isn't an admin abusing them tools, as the game was so enjoyable with my community before that

[Thylbanus]

Then don't play on those servers. Wow. Don't blame a needed machanic on idiot players.

[Radical]

I actually agree even as an admin

What server is yours? as i'd like to play on one where there isn't an admin abusing them tools, as the game was so enjoyable with my community before that

My server is called "Happy Land" but its currently bugged due to host issues with blue fang, ill be happy to forward over details if you want to join us, will also be passworded to keep trolls out etc.

Rad

[SnakeWarlord]

Then don't play on those servers. Wow. Don't blame a needed machanic on idiot players.

how is it a needed mechanic? the whole point in the game is survival and building, spawning stuff is always going to be abused by the majority of admins
if its needed how will the mmo version survive? as people cant be gms there so no spawning....

Edit: Kicking and banning is all well and good in a responsible admins hands though, im not complaining about that aspect at all

[TekhneTukal]

Admin tools give a lot of freedom to create events, RP stories, etc in this sandbox. There is nothing wrong with the tool itself. It is how it is used.

[Sieni]

Not a fan of privately hosted servers on any game people being what they are usually its best sticking to official ones if you want to have decent experience and the freedom to do what ever you want.
Bad servers will end up being ghost towns anyway eventually.

[Capsuna]

I agree with this... GM is way to powerful and I also have my own server.. And with how powerful GM commands are i wont promote any other person as gm apart from myself because i will not abuse this.

GM should just be allowed to kick/ban like any other game.

And if anyone is looking for a good server to get on without admins ruining the game then message me for a password to my server.. It's a 64 slot private that i am hosting with a friendly, growing community.

[Alfie]

Well this was always planned as part of LiF:YO. As sad as it is, the person hosting the server is paying for it after all; it's up to them if they want to fly around and play it like a free builder.

LiF servers are like (small scale) free UO shards for the masses. Responsible admins can do a lot of great things with these tools (like hosting events, removing griefers, putting together e.g. arenas, trade areas etc etc). It's called "Your Own" after all.

If you want to avoid GM shenanigans then do your homework on the server and find out who's running it, what other games they've hosted, is it a guild/company/organised body etc (though there are still no guarantees).

Fact is at this point if you're dealing with "abusive" admins running the server you're on then you may as well of just written your time off anyway as they're obviously not serious about hosting.

With that point in mind, what do you think will happen next month when they're bored of the game? I'm sure they'll keep paying the bill. I'm also confident they're running off database backups too.

Seriously, if the time you're investing on a server is valuable to you then I suggest you spend some time researching.


Not saying I like players having that much power (majority of people just don't have the self discipline to play and host fairly - you can guarantee that most who claim to be angels aren't), but that's why the group I play with intentionally picked an official server hosted by the devs to play on (#32 is the best, heh.. when it's up).

If you don't like it go talk to Boris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO4m-bZ6NcY).

Lets face it. Devs have already said they want LiF:YO to be easily moddable. The database is fully accessible by the server owner. If the devs hadn't implemented these tools, you can bet your left testicle someone within the community would of.

[Liam]

Have to agree with Alfie and Thylbanus

If its a big problem try and find a server with more responsible admins or make your own. because this discussion is just ridiculous and nearly applies to every single multiplayer game out where you can run your own server.

But i strongly disagree with Sieni i think most of these hosting companies are scumbags overselling their game servers so that you in return get horible performance/connection, anoying control panels and slow updates.

And i really hope you guys find a nice place to call home where these things are avoided so you can enjoy the game.

[Alfie]

If its a big problem try and find a server with more responsible admins or make your own. because this discussion is just ridiculous and nearly applies to every single multiplayer game out where you can run your own server.

This 100%.

The tools aren't the issue, it's the admins (though as I said, it's up to them; they're paying the bill). Even if the devs limited what the admins could do, your investment (in this case your time) isn't any more protected.

Find a proper community with a set of admins which are making proper use of the tools, or join one of the developer provided servers.

But i strongly disagree with Sieni i think most of these hosting companies are scumbags overselling their game servers so that you in return get horible performance/connection, anoying control panels and slow updates.

When Sieni says "official" he means the ones hosted by the devs with "official" in the name (these are the ones hosted on servers rented from http://www.hetzner.de/ - seriously, #32 is awesome =P).

Though I haven't had any experience with the LiF hosting partners in particular (so haven't got anything negative to say about them), I agree with you. Most companies cram as many game servers into one box as they can, thus stability goes out the window.

[Liam]

Oh Your right Alfie, i might have read that one a bit too fast

sadly offical servers would make it really hard to shape your own community especially if you want a roleplay environment but it would make it easier to avoid these things

there is always an upside/downside to things.

then again isn't this always a discussion that gets taken up in most online games where you can host servers on your own.

abuse or not abuse / banned for no reason is likely to be thrown across this message board a billion times in the next few days.

[Alfie]

Oh Your right Alfie, i might have read that one a bit too fast

sadly offical servers would make it really hard to shape your own community especially if you want a roleplay environment but it would make it easier to avoid these things

there is always an upside/downside to things.

then again isn't this always a discussion that gets taken up in most online games where you can host servers on your own.

abuse or not abuse / banned for no reason is likely to be thrown across this message board a billion times in the next few days.

I agree on RP, especially if you want to enforce a ruleset like no KoS.

However, if you're looking to play the game more "traditionally" it's still very possible to shape a community; just requires everyone to collaborate together. That's the nice thing about a sandbox game; it gives you that possibility.

small-scale-groups-t1824/

On #32 several groups have come together to create our own server community.

A lot of us are pre steam alpha testers, or know of each other from previous games. We have lots of friendly banter going on and consistent fighting. We've even got our own jokes as sad as that is. Though that's why I love these types of games.


And yeah, this discussion always comes up in every game. The big thing with this game is the time investment. Least if you're playing on your typical FPS it doesn't matter much if you get banned as you don't lose anything.

Oh well.

[BlueFangServers]

Feel free to play on our official BlueFangSolutions.com servers if you cannot afford or are just not interested in running your own. We don't have any GM's except actual BFS staff members and they usually only get on to test specific things. Other than that our servers are 100% no rules survival of the fittest. We also refrain from wiping. Our Philly #1 server has been running since launch without a wipe.

[Thylbanus]

Then don't play on those servers. Wow. Don't blame a needed machanic on idiot players.

how is it a needed mechanic? the whole point in the game is survival and building, spawning stuff is always going to be abused by the majority of admins
if its needed how will the mmo version survive? as people cant be gms there so no spawning....

Edit: Kicking and banning is all well and good in a responsible admins hands though, im not complaining about that aspect at all

Again, if you don't like it, don't play on those servers. Find one that suits you, or make your own. You want to play in someone else's yard, don't bitch that they make the rules.

[Saxxon]

This is the time when good servers will flourish and bad servers will die.

Everyone I strongly suggest reading and becoming familiar with this rule update
http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/naming-and-shaming-announcement-and-rules-t3015/

[Sharkey]

Admins could always do this... If the admin of your server abuses commands dont you think you're on a shitty server? that in no way reflects the game.

[Haladmer]

This is the time when good servers will flourish and bad servers will die.

Everyone I strongly suggest reading and becoming familiar with this rule update
http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/naming-and-shaming-announcement-and-rules-t3015/

A question to clarify that rule because of the timing of your post in the thread.

Are you saying that any discussion on problems related to those topics, even if specific names are not used, are disallowed?

While normally Name&Shame rules deal with discussion calling out specific people/servers/etc, the wording in the rule you posted leaves it a little open-ended in this case.

Not trying to make life difficult for anyone, just making sure we're all playing from the book as it were since the rule is mentioned in this thread specifically.

[Saxxon]

This is the time when good servers will flourish and bad servers will die.

Everyone I strongly suggest reading and becoming familiar with this rule update
http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/naming-and-shaming-announcement-and-rules-t3015/

A question to clarify that rule because of the timing of your post in the thread.

Are you saying that any discussion on problems related to those topics, even if specific names are not used, are disallowed?

While normally Name&Shame rules deal with discussion calling out specific people/servers/etc, the wording in the rule you posted leaves it a little open-ended in this case.

Not trying to make life difficult for anyone, just making sure we're all playing from the book as it were since the rule is mentioned in this thread specifically.

The reason it was mentioned here was out of courtesy to the community as this has never been an issue until the release of the GM tools today and as a result needed to be addressed.

Discussing this issue deals with no names and no shame and is perfectly fine. I fail to see the reason or goal for this discussion as gm tools are a fact and will remain a tool for admins, but feel free to discuss.

A tool nothing more:

A gun in the hand of a criminal is bad

A gun in the hand of a policeman is good

[Keldmann]

I fully support Saxxon, if you feel cheated, then play a different server with an admin who cares...

[Shu]

I really don't see the differences between admin tools like we got now in LiF to other sandbox games like Minecraft, where the admins mostly even had more possibilities and ease to do them. This also isn't an issue with Starmade, where the emphasis is a lot more combat oriented.

Good servers with proper administration will prevail, while abusive and/or just for fun places are likely to vanish over time. And when tings really take off, it's more than likely that fan sites or even the official one will make lists of servers that have proven to be worthy. (This was done for Starmade with great success for example.)

I fully agree that admins should be given all the tools and possibilities to do pretty much anything. That's why they are called admins in the first place, and not just hosters.

[MachineMedic]

As a clan co-leader with origins in an open-source (IOQuake3) game, I fully support any and all server-operator powers and functionality that the devs choose to add to the game, even if it may seem pointless to some niches.

As Saxxon mentioned earlier, power is neither inherently good nor bad: Very much like a firearm, it is a tool that can be used for either ends.

Creating power does not eliminate malice any more than destroying power. It is the people in control of power that will always determine whether benevolence or malice will prevail.

When it comes to moderating a server from the purview of a clan leader or other similar entity responsible for maintaining a community, there is rarely such a thing as having too much power. I would much rather have the ability to run my own server exactly as I see fit than be forced to put up with trolls, cheaters, and exploiters as a result of lacking useful powers simply because others might abuse them. If that means that some other people are going to be able to screw up their own servers because they are not able to handle the responsibility, then so be it. Other people's naïvety will not affect those operators who truly are fair and just.

If you have a problem with a particular server owner, then either find a new official/private server, or buy and maintain your own.

You cannot stop people from being stupid. You can only laugh at them afterwards. Don't let stupid people ruin life for everyone else. If you don't like the way someone runs their server, shout a few choice expletives at them if you feel the obligation, then move on.

[Azzerhoden]

I would guess that a lot of folks now know how hard it is to be a GM in other MMOs. Imagine having the power to not only kill, but delete some obnoxious player who is arguing with you about things out side of your control.

Remember this, so that when this incredibly awesome game goes live with its MMO, you can give their GMs a hug once in a while.

[Radical]

Personally would like to see the GM commands kept as GM and not personal, yes we pay for servers but you dont see people on other games flying around spawning tanks on bf and killing everyone, its a troll tool not a productive tool.

Events etc should be kept to be made on official servers by the devs them selfs, not only that it gives a chance for people to play with the devs other than just abuse their power which will or is already happening when given....

[Avarious]

I actually agree even as an admin

What server is yours? as i'd like to play on one where there isn't an admin abusing them tools, as the game was so enjoyable with my community before that

My server has only one admin and that is me. I do not and will not abuse my admin powers. The only thing I use mine for is help people who have been griefed (such as flying tanning tubs and such) and as far as when I play the game myself I do not give myself any items or even allow myself to use the gm crafting speeds. (gm mode ruins the game ... part of the game is the beauty of the progression.

Here is the thread to my server

quick-start-mmo-style-server-t2755/

copy this into console to join
joinToRemoteServer("23.105.128.234:28150","")

[MachineMedic]

I like how some people here are complaining about people having standard-issue OP/GM/Owner/Operator/Admin powers in this game, while at the same time moaning about things like campfire griefing and structure bugs.

Are people really not aware that GM commands are primarily intended to help manually correct these types of situations?

It's like whining about how your sink is broken, but at the same time complaining to the government that pipe wrenches should be banned, because they can be used as deadly weapons.


I would even go so far as to bring up the unspoken fact that this is a perfect parallel to a gun control debate.

One half of the people here want to ban certain powers because they can be abused, while the other half supports those powers because certain aspects about them inherently deter abuse.

I've always found that server owners generally want to win an imaginary popularity contest when it comes to player counts. Every time a server owner abuses his powers or pisses off his playerbase, there is a chance that some players will leave. While there are plenty of exceptions, a lot of owners will tend to either desist in their behavior, or shut down their servers completely after they can no longer continue their actions without killing off the server population completely.

While this is not a perfect solution, good servers will usually float to the top while rotten apples will settle on the bottom.

If you have an issue with a particular server owner, either try to amicably rectify the situation, or abandon the server. You willingly and knowingly accepted a number of long-term risks in choosing a private server as your home.

The fact is, taking command-line commands away from server owners will never stop them from being dicks. *That* is a problem that lies within the human genetic code, not the game code.

[Ravenclad]

I like how some people here are complaining about people having standard-issue OP/GM/Owner/Operator/Admin powers in this game, while at the same time moaning about things like campfire griefing and structure bugs.

Are people really not aware that GM commands are primarily intended to help manually correct these types of situations?

It's like whining about how your sink is broken, but at the same time complaining to the government that pipe wrenches should be banned, because they can be used as deadly weapons.


I would even go so far as to bring up the unspoken fact that this is a perfect parallel to a gun control debate.

One half of the people here want to ban certain powers because they can be used, while the other supports those powers because they inherently deter abuse.

I've always found that server owners generally want to win a popularity contest when it comes to player counts. Every time a server owner abuses his powers or pisses off his playerbase, there is a chance that some players will leave. While there are some exceptions, a lot of owners will tend to either desist in their behavior, or shut down their servers completely over a long period of time.

While this is not a perfect solution, good servers will usually float to the top while rotten apples will settle on the bottom.

If you have an issue with a particular server owner, either try to amicably rectify the situation, or abandon the server. You willingly and knowingly accepted a number of long-term risks in choosing a private server as your home.

The fact is, taking command-line commands away from server owners will never stop them from being a bag of dicks. *That* is a problem that lies within the human genetic code, not the game code.

Good post, and I for one hope the devs of this game understand that the people bitching and whining have no idea what they actually want and no interest in the health of the game as a whole. So hopefully they wont feel pressured to destroy what they have already created by listening to some of these children.

[Alfie]

The fact is, taking command-line commands away from server owners will never stop them from being a bag of dicks. *That* is a problem that lies within the human genetic code, not the game code.

I love you.

On a serious note, if the GMs on the server are abusing their powers in the first place then generally it's safe to say they're not serious about hosting.

Thus it doesn't matter if they have tools to fudge with you or not; your invested time is no more safe because after a month when they're bored the servers going to be gone anyway.