Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Mortimer]

243. Will there be a possibility of feints? (as in attack, block to cancel attack animation and attack again to confuse your opponent)
Yes, but keep in mind, that there is no directional block/parry in our game, so such tactics won't be that fruitful as in M&B


So if there is no directional parry then directional attacks... work mainly to count damage and as different attack types. If I understand that correctly then as an examplr with an awlpike only the thrust would do piercing damage and the other directions most likely blunt.

Still that means you can't outskill your opponents because they have automatic parry hence the feints don't work

Any reason for no directional blocks?

Also why does a sweep like attack hit only one person? That would be a very big thing to lookout for when you outnumber your enemies.

Fortificating and all is nice but it's not something you can do when you are raiding your enemy's lands to weaken them - when you know you can't take their force head on. Cripple if you may.

[Bobik]

It is MMORPG and not just multiplayer. Directional blocking was removed as it depends mostly on reaction time and on some prediction. But in MMORPG realities, especially with one server in our current case, pings can be very different and "i have reacted in time on your attack" will not be possible for some players with just over 100 ping. That's the main reason behind lack of directional blocking, aside from other.
But, ofc there are other mechanism that will discourage low skilled players behavior like:

1) Mindless spam attacking. Such players will run out of SoftStamina and will be forced to catch breath. Such players will be outdamaged by providing a certain combo of attacks (for instance left slash+ overhead+ thrust) resulting in increased damage or special effect like bleeding, fracture, knockdown, stagger. Such players can still be kited in a battle situation, because they usually trying to glue to one target, so others can pick them off easily.

2) Readying a certain directional attack and charging forward. In such cases parry system will still work, thing is that it can't block all attacks, if you got spammed with them, especially if you're trying to parry with heavy 2H weapon vs fast 1H weapon. Also, we plan that full body attacks (when you're standing on the ground and do not moving anywhere) will do significantly more damage and will have increased chances of special weapon effects then the same attacks performed on the run or strafing. So a skilled player will find a good moment to stand his ground and deal a proper fullforce blow, rather then just strafing around like mad and making alot of minor blows.
Also, if you have a certain skills you can try to pounce on that attacker to knock him off or shield bash him, because he will be obviously opened for such attack.

3) Not reacting on his opponents actions. That means that he will not interrupt your combos with parry, block or evades. And when he feels that everything is bad he will turtle up into block (that can be effectively broken with a pounce attack) or parry - that can be overwhelmed with your faster attacks and successful parry will still leak some damage. That he will not observe surroundings and your movement, so you can force him in either in-fighting or kite him in certain moments.

These are just some basic examples. Feel free to provide yours

"Also why does a sweep like attack hit only one person?" - because that sounds real? And because that give too much advantage to 2H weapons, while 1H already have shorter reach.

Before you keep that discussion i recommend you to think outside of the box, and keep in mind that it is a MMORPG and it SHOULD be so, that a 10 personaly skilled players that are disorganized will be beaten by 10 not so skilled, but organized players.

In the end i would like to say, that we might miss some details or certain numbers for balance - only real tests will uncover them. But trust me, we have both logical background behind our system + mathematical model to provide first rough numbers for initial balance of our combat system.
But we're always open to discussions and suggestions

[Mortimer]

I'd still say that in certain situations an attack should hit more then one opponent For example if I sneak on two archers then their leather armor wouldn't really stop the force of my swing. On the other hand of course we have someone parrying or blocking then sure it will be parried and the force of the attack is mostly nullified.

Don't get me wrong I see the point in what you're saying. But how the mechanics look in your head have no representation in mine

This can really only be solved one way, I need in on the game to make up my mind

[myndziuss]

You should really consider making it possible to hold swings charged and making it so that your swing wount do full damage untill its fully charged back.

IMO it would make the game like 10x more skillbased.

[banok]

I do like the directional block system of M&B but I can see why it might not work so great in an mmo.

I think we should keep an open mind of LiF's combat system until we actually try it out for ourselves.

[Styo]

I do like the directional block system of M&B but I can see why it might not work so great in an mmo.

I think we should keep an open mind of LiF's combat system until we actually try it out for ourselves.

This.

There is still a lot of testing to be done, so until we can actually battle and duel one another, it will be tough to figure out how it should be..

[Mortimer]

All I'm saying is you don't want to give me the steak then at least give me a bone!

[Bobik]

You should really consider making it possible to hold swings charged and making it so that your swing wount do full damage untill its fully charged back.

IMO it would make the game like 10x more skillbased.

It is already implemented, just that is not that obvious to the player, because we don't have some progress bar filling up or something like that. Thing is that we just lower attack power if it was not charged for a few ms (e.g. you're spamming your attacks on recharge), but you do not need to charge it for like 2 seconds to perform an MEGA blow

I do understand you all guys, i've been in your shoes many times before. And trust me, we're working our asses off to bring a maximum functionality working ASAP. But now i can only wish you to grow up yourself a good virtue - patience

[Deathshroud]

You should really consider making it possible to hold swings charged and making it so that your swing wount do full damage untill its fully charged back.

IMO it would make the game like 10x more skillbased.

It is already implemented, just that is not that obvious to the player, because we don't have some progress bar filling up or something like that. Thing is that we just lower attack power if it was not charged for a few ms (e.g. you're spamming your attacks on recharge), but you do not need to charge it for like 2 seconds to perform an MEGA blow

I do understand you all guys, i've been in your shoes many times before. And trust me, we're working our asses off to bring a maximum functionality working ASAP. But now i can only wish you to grow up yourself a good virtue - patience

then im not really sure what the issue is with directional blocking? if people are holding their attack before release then surely even with 100 ping you would have time to block in the direction they have it charged. This only really becomes an issue against those that would spam their attacks but if the damage is low enough it wouldnt really be a problem.

[Bobik]

That becomes an issue when attack faking in place. Also, keep in mind that if, for instance, you have a 100 ping, that means it will take for you to 100 ms to receive data from server showing that enemy had prepared an attack, 200-300 ms to react, and 100 ms for data from your client to travel towards server.
So it should be roughly 0.5 seconds between the start of enemy attack and the time it will hit you, and that is quite slooow attack, trust me.
Anyway we will see how things are working out and will adopt.

[myndziuss]

You should really consider making it possible to hold swings charged and making it so that your swing wount do full damage untill its fully charged back.

IMO it would make the game like 10x more skillbased.

It is already implemented, just that is not that obvious to the player, because we don't have some progress bar filling up or something like that. Thing is that we just lower attack power if it was not charged for a few ms (e.g. you're spamming your attacks on recharge), but you do not need to charge it for like 2 seconds to perform an MEGA blow

I do understand you all guys, i've been in your shoes many times before. And trust me, we're working our asses off to bring a maximum functionality working ASAP. But now i can only wish you to grow up yourself a good virtue - patience

Oh, ive had the idea that you couldnt hold your swings charged, good then

[Deathshroud]

That becomes an issue when attack faking in place. Also, keep in mind that if, for instance, you have a 100 ping, that means it will take for you to 100 ms to receive data from server showing that enemy had prepared an attack, 200-300 ms to react, and 100 ms for data from your client to travel towards server.
So it should be roughly 0.5 seconds between the start of enemy attack and the time it will hit you, and that is quite slooow attack, trust me.
Anyway we will see how things are working out and will adopt.

So how will players be able to avoid hitting someone block? if there is only 1 block direction it means blocking will most likely have to be made useless for the system to be remotely fun.
i cant recall a single melee style game that had a single block that covered all directions that was fun.
instead of relying on block players will rely on movement instead which creates similar problems with lag.

[Balariand]

I think Chivalry: Medieval Warfare used a "one-block" system as well. You have to aim at the oponents weapon to block, though. I hope something like this will be used.

Sincerely, Balariand

[Bobik]

Can we be more SPECIFIC when we're talking about blocking (via shield) or parrying (via weapon)?

About parrying i've said earlier - parrying will be useless to block everything and everywhere - it should be used intelligently to interrupt combo sequences of your opponent and to mitigate some damage.

If we are talking about block - blocking is a whole other story.
1) Shields in our game have a real hitbox, that depends on the type/size of the shield. That hitbox will cover your from projectiles and attacks in all states (e.g. when you're actively blocking, not actively blocking or even when you wear your shield on the back).
2) While actively blocking you will mitigate:
- NO damage if hit in back,
- SOME damage if hit in the front, but that attack had missed your shield hitbox
- ALL or almost all damage if hit in the shield hitbox
3) blocking person can be effectively knocked down if got hit by a "pounce" attack, which is an ability of some 2H weapon masteries.

But, anyway, i really suggest to end that discussion, because i doubt that i can explain good and clearly our vision of combat system. And we will be able to do that only by implementing it and letting you to chop each other heads off
So i suggest to grow some patience

[myndziuss]

Can we be more SPECIFIC when we're talking about blocking (via shield) or parrying (via weapon)?

About parrying i've said earlier - parrying will be useless to block everything and everywhere - it should be used intelligently to interrupt combo sequences of your opponent and to mitigate some damage.

If we are talking about block - blocking is a whole other story.
1) Shields in our game have a real hitbox, that depends on the type/size of the shield. That hitbox will cover your from projectiles and attacks in all states (e.g. when you're actively blocking, not actively blocking or even when you wear your shield on the back).
2) While actively blocking you will mitigate:
- NO damage if hit in back,
- SOME damage if hit in the front, but that attack had missed your shield hitbox
- ALL or almost all damage if hit in the shield hitbox
3) blocking person can be effectively knocked down if got hit by a "pounce" attack, which is an ability of some 2H weapon masteries.

But, anyway, i really suggest to end that discussion, because i doubt that i can explain good and clearly our vision of combat system. And we will be able to do that only by implementing it and letting you to chop each other heads off
So i suggest to grow some patience

Well said

[Hakjimmy]

That becomes an issue when attack faking in place. Also, keep in mind that if, for instance, you have a 100 ping, that means it will take for you to 100 ms to receive data from server showing that enemy had prepared an attack, 200-300 ms to react, and 100 ms for data from your client to travel towards server.
So it should be roughly 0.5 seconds between the start of enemy attack and the time it will hit you, and that is quite slooow attack, trust me.
Anyway we will see how things are working out and will adopt.

I am just wondering if there is a possiblity that players would be able to choose manual block or autoblock themselves and if they choose manual block they receive sort of perks ,so normally newbies and players with high ping would adopt auto block and everything for them is just as planned ,but a few sophiscated players with manual block will ,like ,deal more damage or say regenerate SP more quickly.

[Bobik]

Can't really understand your question, sorry. Blocking will be activated manually in any case, i've never mentioned something about autoblocking...

[En_Dotter]

Can't really understand your question, sorry. Blocking will be activated manually in any case, i've never mentioned something about autoblocking...

Well, depending on your gaming history it depends what you consider autoblock.
For example, directional blocking (like mount and blade multiplayer) is considered manual, while pressing a single key that blocks all attacks (shield in mount and blade) is considered autoblocking (even though you actually press a button, but you do not need much skill to block). So, will there be directional blocking as well (at least for people without shields, please )?

[Balariand]

Greetings!

It is MMORPG and not just multiplayer. Directional blocking was removed as it depends mostly on reaction time and on some prediction. But in MMORPG realities, especially with one server in our current case, pings can be very different and "i have reacted in time on your attack" will not be possible for some players with just over 100 ping. That's the main reason behind lack of directional blocking, aside from other.
But, ofc there are other mechanism that will discourage low skilled players behavior like:

According to this, there wont be directional blocking. ^^
Sincerely, Balariand

[Bobik]

Well, actually we might think about it. Making a directional blocking like in Chivalry - like the more you are facing enemy sword - the more accurate and effective your parry will be.

As about blocks - i've mentioned that before. Shields hitboxes are taken into account, so if you want to block effectively -you will HAVE to turn your shield towards attackers weapon.

[Siegbert]

Well, actually we might think about it. Making a directional blocking like in Chivalry - like the more you are facing enemy sword - the more accurate and effective your parry will be.

Sounds fair enough.

[BeastSVK]

Can't really understand your question, sorry. Blocking will be activated manually in any case, i've never mentioned something about autoblocking...

Well, depending on your gaming history it depends what you consider autoblock.
For example, directional blocking (like mount and blade multiplayer) is considered manual, while pressing a single key that blocks all attacks (shield in mount and blade) is considered autoblocking (even though you actually press a button, but you do not need much skill to block). So, will there be directional blocking as well (at least for people without shields, please )?

Again i must agree with dotter..game without blocking will lost soul and no target fight is usless..its just blidly swinging around...and even then many guys will ahve advantage on footwork..they will be sooner near u then u see due ping ..its same...removing blocks will not solve ping problems..its just ruining most awsome thing...that give u real feeling of fight.. think into future where there u will have possibility to make more servers..(1xNA,1x EU,1xAssia)then the ping will be ok and manual blocking will be for sure ok .. dont remove..keep manual blocking it in safe deposit so once ulll have servers u can implement it.

[Seppuku]

I'd still say that in certain situations an attack should hit more then one opponent For example if I sneak on two archers then their leather armor wouldn't really stop the force of my swing. On the other hand of course we have someone parrying or blocking then sure it will be parried and the force of the attack is mostly nullified.

Don't get me wrong I see the point in what you're saying. But how the mechanics look in your head have no representation in mine

This can really only be solved one way, I need in on the game to make up my mind

Maybe a special attack when standing still. A chance to "cleave" or something with a 2hander?

[Seppuku]

Can't really understand your question, sorry. Blocking will be activated manually in any case, i've never mentioned something about autoblocking...

Well, depending on your gaming history it depends what you consider autoblock.
For example, directional blocking (like mount and blade multiplayer) is considered manual, while pressing a single key that blocks all attacks (shield in mount and blade) is considered autoblocking (even though you actually press a button, but you do not need much skill to block). So, will there be directional blocking as well (at least for people without shields, please )?

It's only the real feeling of a fight if you have the faster ping. To those of us with over 100 It's not realistic at all and frustrating. I can't count the number of times I've blocked perfectly or counter swung on an enemy in Mount and Blade but because of high ping it was blocked or i was hit.