Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Muffinman88]

hey all i have recently come back to the game and love what they have done so far, and i have checked out the road map and can not wait to see more of this development, but i dint see anything about melee combat being propley balanced out or the armouers plus not to mention my main and only gripe with this game the really sketchy sheild mechanics im hopeing they make them more vialbe. what is everyones opinion??? will shields be a needed update to brake the niece of everyone going 2 handed and crossbow

[Astapor]

for what i know they fairly fixed most of melee weapons.

[Azzerhoden]

Shields do reduce the amount of damage taken from attacks. More if up and blocking an attack, less if just held. I have beaten wielders of the great blades by timing a bash to knock them on their posterity followed by rapid attacks with a pick, mace, or axe.

Crossbows are fairly balanced now. Bows on the other hand, need some work as they fire too fast and allow bowman to move and reload. Without a horse it is impossible to catch naked bowman right now, and IMO is game breaking.

[MrErad]

Yeah shield are fantastic but take a high amount of durability loss. 3 hits dropped my shield last night about 50 durability.

[Stormsblade]

Anyone who thinks a shield is good in the current meta is quite the bad player.

[Azzerhoden]

Anyone who thinks a shield is good in the current meta is quite the bad player.

Pretty sure you got that backwards, since you're the one having difficulty using it correctly.

But hey, keep trying to troll. You'll eventually get better at it with more practice.

[Stormsblade]

Anyone who thinks a shield is good in the current meta is quite the bad player.

Pretty sure you got that backwards, since you're the one having difficulty using it correctly.

But hey, keep trying to troll. You'll eventually get better at it with more practice.

I lol'ed.
post47671/#p47671

If there were wager duels, and some currency worth having, I could be a very rich man at your shields expense.

[MrErad]

So which meta are you abusing Stormsblade? Naked Archer? Naked War Scythes?

Sword and board is very viable. Once inside the 2h reach it is very difficult for a 2h to kill the sword and board user especially if they're slower than you. Straight line towards a shield user for jousting and you'll get shield bashed. Leading to a quick demise. The only issue currently with shields is the hitbox at times. Block into a weapons blade though and you're taking single damage hits for an easy counter attack. I took 3 or 4 flamberge hits for a total of 15 damage against a player last night.


Sword and board is very powerful but all damage will have to be tweaked down the line. Currently you cant pull off any of the skill combos without 1 shotting or 2 shotting a player. The only real way to increase TTK currently is to use the shield properly.

Group combat every character actually has a role to play. When combat balance eventually comes the battles will be more dynamic but you can see basic formations/coverage forming in group fights with the current alpha.

[Stormsblade]

2h sword+axe players are always faster than sword and board, as they don't need to carry the extra shield weight.
2h has longer reach.

A skilled 2h player simply kites the boarder, and swings at the edge of range if the boarder pursues.

If the boarder stands their ground, you find an angle to release and move past your opponent in a perpendicular path, out of their range, killing the boarder.

If the boarder tries to shield bash, they will be out of range and miss if you aren't moving directly towards them (as you should never be, always take the angle), and they sign their own death sentence because they stun themselves with the shield block animation.

Shields basically provide no protection either, as anyone swinging properly using mouse movement will easily swing through the surface of the shield, resulting in an easy hit behind it. All the sword and board has is a 2 inch by inch ability to absorb arrows near their groin, even with the largest shield, that any competent archer would not aim at. Therefore, you are far safer using movement to obfuscate an archers target area (zig-zag, etc) than trying to block arrows with your shield (which gives them an easy target.)

Furthermore, a skilled archer just kites the boarder, at absolutely no risk, as the sword and board will always be slower.

I have no doubt you *can* kill players with sword and board, especially players that are inexperienced at combat or just generally bad. But as soon as you play against someone who hasn't been lobotomized, its inherent weaknesses render you virtually useless.

As soon as you start to try your sword+board against actual good players, I am sure you will cry about how broken it is.

As far as what meta I am abusing: I don't even bother to play right now, I figured out all the combat mechanics within a few weeks of playing, and only periodically return when they release combat updates.

tl;dr

Taking sword+board is handicapping yourself with (1)lower speed, (2)less stamina, (3)less damage, (4)less reach, in order to have a basically non-existent increase in protections over parry, and a gimmicky "shield bash" skill that only works against noobs.

[Azzerhoden]

I am not going to dispute some of your techniques there storm, because you are right, a skilled two handed blade user will, most of the time, be able to stay out of shield bash range. Largely because half the skills for shields are not implemented yet, especially around sprinting, so in effect, you can sprint and your opponent cannot. Once that is implemented though, you will not be able to stay at the edge. Of course, war cries are not in yet either, so it is not know what impact that will have.

Weight is an issue for us sword and boards, yet armor still needs tweaking as well since there is no real advantage to wearing higher armor teirs. I've been able to keep my geared weight around half of my strength, and managed stam use just fine in fights.

Further your examples about bowman are meaningless. Archery is extremely OP right now. I can promise that my naked 100 skill point archer could take your melee guy every single fight, because, with everything else being equal, your great sword will always weigh more than my skimpy bow and 20 arrows. I'd eventually out distance you, then fill you with arrows.

At the moment archery is as broken in LIF as it was in MO.

[Stormsblade]

Haha, admitted that shields are a pointless meta, and say it doesn't matter because other things are OP, resulting in an entirely broken combat system?

Yep.
Exactly.

Everything is broken, and archery with speed is king.
You and I agree there.

But shields are the most useless, completely pointless, in the current meta. They do not block arrows or provide any benefit in melee against skilled players.

That's all I have been saying.

[Azzerhoden]

Haha, admitted that shields are a pointless meta, and say it doesn't matter because other things are OP, resulting in an entirely broken combat system?

Yep.
Exactly.

Everything is broken, and archery with speed is king.
You and I agree there.

But shields are the most useless, completely pointless, in the current meta. They do not block arrows or provide any benefit in melee against skilled players.

That's all I have been saying.

No, I admitted that your technique is valid because some shield skills are not implemented yet and most players do not have the knowledge to use a shield effectively.

Shields require practice. Nobody using a shield will be effective if the only fighting they have done is in real fights. It requires practice to get the timing down to fight someone running around and trying to stay out of range.

My fights have been against people who were very skilled in MO using two handed weapons. Do I win every time? No. Nor do I lose every time. It comes down to which of us better executes our strategy, which is the way it should be.

All of which makes shields viable, which is what I've been saying. Not superior, but not inferior either.

[Stormsblade]

Let me ask you this:
Ignoring the shield bash function that only works on noobs, what advantage do you feel your shield provides you at all?

What can you do that you can't do better with a polearm or 2h?

[MrErad]

Since the forums didnt post my message last night. If all things being equal the shield allows you to absorb all damage. Even without the gimicky shield bash. Thats if both parties are running leather if we're talking the current meta being speed and all.

Just to give you an idea a longbow with 30 arrows runs at 99 speed 60/60 stats or 100 with short/composite. Same armor with a kite & knight sword is 97. If i wanted I could easily pick up potentially 1-2 more points with a saber/targe combo or swap in for a smaller heater giving me even more speed. Loading more arrows slows you down & having a backup 1h does the same. Anytime you go to knock an arrow you slow down.

Polearms & a few 2 handers are currently beyond broken that you can actually one shot the majority of players or 2 shot even a full plate wearer with them. On a naked you can easily reach 200 damage with a war scythe. Anything leather, padded,scale wont reduce the damage enough that you wont die. Full plate is 2hits. This is if you're running with 100hp. higher con will only save you in plate against those weapon but then you'll be much slower. If you can manage to hold out with a board vs the 2h and get inside the weapon reach you've pretty much won. There is a way to abuse the weapon reach currently though with aiming low and that will get fixed eventually. If a weapon hits the ground or a building it should stop the blade.

Once the game starts to have balance passes & the hitboxes tweaked you'll see that shields will be more prominent. Top it off sprinting with the shield will be a big boost to the board + 1h combo. All this is moot though since its alpha but 1h+board is viable even against the 1 shot weapons.

The mechanics for good combat are there just damage needs to be lowered. A successful parry currently slows & breaks the other opponents next swing setting up for a counter attack. Shield Block once in a while can do the same but more times than not they just absorb the blow.

[Stormsblade]

Since the forums didnt post my message last night. If all things being equal the shield allows you to absorb all damage. Even without the gimicky shield bash. Thats if both parties are running leather if we're talking the current meta being speed and all.

Just to give you an idea a longbow with 30 arrows runs at 99 speed 60/60 stats or 100 with short/composite. Same armor with a kite & knight sword is 97. If i wanted I could easily pick up potentially 1-2 more points with a saber/targe combo or swap in for a smaller heater giving me even more speed. Loading more arrows slows you down & having a backup 1h does the same. Anytime you go to knock an arrow you slow down.

Polearms & a few 2 handers are currently beyond broken that you can actually one shot the majority of players or 2 shot even a full plate wearer with them. On a naked you can easily reach 200 damage with a war scythe. Anything leather, padded,scale wont reduce the damage enough that you wont die. Full plate is 2hits. This is if you're running with 100hp. higher con will only save you in plate against those weapon but then you'll be much slower. If you can manage to hold out with a board vs the 2h and get inside the weapon reach you've pretty much won. There is a way to abuse the weapon reach currently though with aiming low and that will get fixed eventually. If a weapon hits the ground or a building it should stop the blade.

Once the game starts to have balance passes & the hitboxes tweaked you'll see that shields will be more prominent. Top it off sprinting with the shield will be a big boost to the board + 1h combo. All this is moot though since its alpha but 1h+board is viable even against the 1 shot weapons.

The mechanics for good combat are there just damage needs to be lowered. A successful parry currently slows & breaks the other opponents next swing setting up for a counter attack. Shield Block once in a while can do the same but more times than not they just absorb the blow.

tl;dr

I delude myself into thinking the massive weight disadvantage of the shield is meaningless to my opponents ability to control the fight with their speed.

But I also accept that shields are useless right now, but eventually they will be worthwhile, IF they are fixed AND other things are nerfed.

Until then I will just focus on minimizing the handicap I get by choosing shield right now, and pretend they are good.