Life is Feudal Official Forum

[BartusPL]

Hi,

Bow, Crossbow:
I think about shooting from bow or crossbow vs plate armor. Bow in real never penetrate plate armor(medieval bow). maybe it's good idea to make crossbow and bow more characteristic.
Question:
What's about hitboxe's. Is there chance to hit some one in face or another "hole" in plate armor?

Taming:
I'm playing in game named Roma Victor, in these game you can rise you lucky in taming process when you have in you inventory some fruit's.

Bleeding:
Nice to see something which will increase the chances of survival when you are bleeding,like bandage or something else that was used in medieval. Maybe using hot metal knife and touchin our wounded?

Damage modification:
Some type of weapon's should change damage type in contact with plate armor, or another type armor.
Sword(cut damage) vs plate armor = blunt damage(more if weapons is heavy + our stats modyfication)
Sword vs chainmail = blunt damage, but chainmail may break.
I think clean cut should give more damage and on impact or later when you still have open wound.

Regards.
Bartus

[Demonic]

Hi,

Bow in real never penetrate plate armor(medieval bow)

And that's where you're wrong. English longbows with a good arrows were fully capable of penetrating plate armor. Of course the archer had to be close enough (50 - 100 meters i think).

[Thokan]

Hi,

Bow in real never penetrate plate armor(medieval bow)

And that's where you're wrong. English longbows with a good arrows were fully capable of penetrating plate armor. Of course the archer had to be close enough (50 - 100 meters i think).

The good old Agincourt debate. It truly never dies.

[BartusPL]

Hi,

Bow in real never penetrate plate armor(medieval bow)

And that's where you're wrong. English longbows with a good arrows were fully capable of penetrating plate armor. Of course the archer had to be close enough (50 - 100 meters i think).

I mean not hurt tissue, plate armor was destroyed, but nothing more. On YT you have many video abbout these theme.

[Demonic]

I mean not hurt tissue, plate armor was destroyed, but nothing more. On YT you have many video abbout these theme.

Yeeaah, YT, the ultimate source of knowledge.
Trust me, trained archer with good equipement was able to hurt you through the plate armor.

(WAS is a crucial word, i don't think there is anyone with that kind of training nowadays)

Of course archers tried to aim at vulnerable spots such as face, but if he was close enough with a good equiplement (solid war longbow, we are not talking about some 2nd class hunting bow) he could shoot through it. And remember it was not only the arrow moving against the knight, but often the knights charged against them on their horses...

And yes, if the distance was too big, arrow could't penetrate the armor, but the strengh of the impact was still enough to knock you down.

But remember, we are speakig about trained soldier with a lot of war experience with good bow. That does not mean everyone could do it. Not at all.

And crowbows were that dangerous because they allowed even a mediocre soldier to kill a knight. Hell, Pope once tried to ban crossbows from using. (though only against Christians, no problem with using them against infidels)

[Mighty_Chicken]

A English longbow would probably be able to penetrate and damage plate armor at <100 yards or so. Your average bow though would have no chance at punching through plate armor. Crossbows I believe were better at punching through plate armor though im not 100% sure.

Swords slashing would have little to no effect on plate armor if youre using an average person with an average size sword. With the exception of those crazy 6ft long swords and giants swords were mostly used to slice against leather or cloth. Against metal armor people would usually stab.

If you want to really damage things in armor though a mace or axe would be much better than a sword as blunt damage is only slowed down by the armor not completely stopped like a sword slice.

[Demonic]

Well I was speaking about English Longbow. It was one of the few bows (if not the only one) capable of piercing plate armor.

Crossbows were much stronger, that's the reason why they were so dangerous and hated. They were slow, but strong and way much easier to learn shoot than the bow.

Before the Crossbow, you would need a trained, skilled and strong soldier with english longbow or it's equivalent if you needed a dangerous long ranged soldier. But with crossbow? Almost everyone could learn to use it and the aiming was easier too. For 1 good Longbowmen, you could get 5 to 10 good crosbowmen and that's just a rough estimation.

[Dailato]

Indeed, the crossbow was one of, if not the first mass-produced fire-arm used for arming the masses to fight for you. Why arm one man with a well-made, accurate and strong longbow, when you can arm five with mediocre crossbows and have them able to shoot with fair accuracy?

The reason crossbows had an easier time puncturing plate armour was because of the heavier bolts used for them. Unless we're talking true siege-crossbows (and to some extent even then) the downside combared to bows was the range and accuracy loss caused by this heavier mass being shot, and ofcourse the massively slower reload time.

In terms of killing regular infantry, the bow was simply superiour in range, accuracy, and speed, to the point that even with the larger numbers of crossbowmen fielded, longbowmen could often win the battle.

Against knights in plated armour though... the crossbow wasn't feared for it's effectiveness in war, it was feared for it's effectiveness at killing the people that caused and were in charge of the war. The people who's wellbeing actually mattered to the people in charge (namely themselves).

For the sake of the game however, I doubt crossbows will have significantly more powerful dps against armour than bows will. While the single-shot damage will be higher (which makes it good for sieges, as ammunition may not be endless) the rate of fire and possibly accuracy on the bow will make up for it.

That's my prediction at any rate.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Telakh]

You should keep in mind that any crippled arher can easily run away from a full-mail footman. Besides full mail was used mostly by heavy cavalry and two-handed footmen and any archer can shoot down the horse or run away from slow infantry. You can't really run fast with 50kg armor and 10kg of weapons and shields on you.

[BartusPL]

Yeeaah, YT, the ultimate source of knowledge.
Trust me, trained archer with good equipement was able to hurt you through the plate armor.

(WAS is a crucial word, i don't think there is anyone with that kind of training nowadays)

Of course archers tried to aim at vulnerable spots such as face, but if he was close enough with a good equiplement (solid war longbow, we are not talking about some 2nd class hunting bow) he could shoot through it. And remember it was not only the arrow moving against the knight, but often the knights charged against them on their horses...

And yes, if the distance was too big, arrow could't penetrate the armor, but the strengh of the impact was still enough to knock you down.

But remember, we are speakig about trained soldier with a lot of war experience with good bow. That does not mean everyone could do it. Not at all.

And crowbows were that dangerous because they allowed even a mediocre soldier to kill a knight. Hell, Pope once tried to ban crossbows from using. (though only against Christians, no problem with using them against infidels)

Ok I find on YT part of some Discovery materiall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRXwk4Kdbic
If I heart right, longbow penetrate plate armor from 20 meter's. I see these in TV, and if My memory serves me, they used original made stuff to test.

Of corse We'are speaking about well trainded archer. Everyone know how many year's they must train.

I remember time's when I play in Roma Victor, in these game archer must train for months(real time) if want hurt some one in battlefield. Kill some one is another story...

Crossbow is a good weapon, easy to learn, bowman can shoot very fast, but he must learn longer.

Crossbow and bow were in worse and better version like everything's.
Regards.

[BartusPL]

More suggestion about weapon's:

I see on dev video information about physical range of melee weapon's.
What about weapon like axe or mace with spiked head. What happen when target is too close to hit with spiket head, but hit with handle?
Maybe different type of damage for head and handle?

[Sting5]

Ok I find on YT part of some Discovery material:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRXwk4Kdbic
If I heart right, longbow penetrate plate armor from 20 meter's. I see these in TV, and if My memory serves me, they used original made stuff to test.

BartusPL bravo, great material.
Well, this isn't Discovery CH, but also shows the idea of penetration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9I2tWAcKzU
Chainmail vs. Sword.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx87tBIJEA8
Chainmail/scalemail vs. arrow.

So yes, the only factor, influencing penetration, is skill and distance.

Surely, plate armor is hardest to penetrate, but easy job for experienced sharpshooter with a heavy crossbow from 100 yards and longbow from 50 yards.

[BartusPL]

More about crossbowman, and bowman:

Crossbow is beter than bow to shooting from wall's but this is difficult to implement for the game.
Bowman must stick out from wall when shooting. He's more exposed to hit than Crossbowman.

Bowman is beter on the open field, so this is why crossbowman using heavy shield like here:

[Thokan]

More about crossbowman, and bowman:

Crossbow is beter than bow to shooting from wall's but this is difficult to implement for the game.
Bowman must stick out from wall when shooting. He's more exposed to hit than Crossbowman.

Bowman is beter on the open field, so this is why crossbowman using heavy shield like here:

There is enough difference between the two weapons giving them each characteristics just in their different loading times, aim and arche. All which is easily implemented in game.

Do believe there is also a secondary skill mainly for archer-archtypes to set up battle defenses.

[Proximo]

Concerning arrows vs plate, bodkin point arrow does not fully penetrate a steel plate chest piece. BUT that is not the only part of a man in armour. The weakest points of plate or most armours for that matter are the joints. Armpits, elbows, neck, knee and depending on the design the back.

Those should be taken into consideration for doing damage.

Type of arrow tip should also be taken into account. Broad head, bodkin, blunt and so on.

I've seen that you are able to be knocked out and knocked down. A headshot to a plate helmet from a blunt arrow should atleast knock the guy down if not knock him out. shooting the knee could have the same effect.

I know it would be difficult but I have yet to see a game with realistic medieval projectile ballistics and the relevance of arrow vs armour type/location.

[BartusPL]

About weapon's:

Nice to see working weapons like these:
Flails:


Nice to see some weapons with two mode's like war hamer:

By pressing some buton, we can change mode, and using pick(to kill), or blunt(to knock out). Same Becs de Corbin, but longer shaft.

Halberd:

Normal mode: thrust(pierce) and cut by axe, second mode, thrust(pierce), and slash(pierce), for armored target.

Guisarmes:

Used primarily to dismount knights and horsemen.
Or, billhook, same like guisarmes, but with second mode(slash pierce).

Crossbow:
Usualy with wooden prow(bow).

Arbalest:
Late crossbow with steal prow(bow). Heavy and powerfull. Nice to see special systems for pulling the sinew via windlasses:



And, my special wish:
Falcion, The weapon combined the weight and power of an axe with the versatility of a sword.


And simple"peasant's" weapons for killing knigh't:
Plancon:

Or, godendag(last right):

Flail:

Maul:


EDIT:
And one more important:
Estoc:

[BartusPL]

Is there are chance to see real name of the armor in game?
On the wiki We have many set's. In My opinion set's is a bad idea. For My it's enemy of free character customisation.
Ok, We have:
1.) Full Plate armor= if I have right is a german style armor, helmet is named armet.
2.)Half plate= look's like chainmail with quilted skin armor, helmet = basinet
3.) Heavy chainmail= I never see that before, looks like something from before medieval age, or far west
4.) Heavy leather= lamellar armor, helmet=?
5.) Heavy scale= Lamellar armor, look's like mongol armor.
6.) Regular chainmail= helmet looks like norman style helmet.
7.) Regular leather breastplate= lamellar armor
8.) Royal chainmail, helmet look's like viking one.
9.) Royal full plate, look's like Italian blacked armor, helmet is armet from XVI.

Nice to see more helmet's like:
-Capalin
-Barbute(especialy two type):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Barbuta.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Philadelphia_Museum_of_Art_Barbute.JPG/576px-Philadelphia_Museum_of_Art_Barbute.JPG
-Sallet's
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Sallets_by_Emmanuel_Viollet-le-Duc_.jpg/800px-Sallets_by_Emmanuel_Viollet-le-Duc_.jpg

[Prion]

While I agree it's certainly not true that arrows never penetrate platemail, there should be a fair chance (or maybe a deterministic system, based on speed and angle and whatnot) that arrows will NOT penetrate your armor, maybe just stopping/slowing you and giving some small stamina damage?

As for crossbows, they were absolutely capable of penetrating armor of all kinds (if not 100% of the time).

[Elysana]

This is an enlightening video about the difference between the crossbow and English longbow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G86vNxuIB0

Also, longbow and crossbow speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HagCuGXJgUs