Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Kalki777]

Darkfall online, and funny enough Mortal Online has been successful enough for Star Vault to keep their doors open for years and that game is so F***ing frustrating to die in vs Darkfall. PVP should be an option 24/7 as it is in real life, and this was suppose to be game aiming for "realism". I guess you could consider RUST a MMO considering it has 1000's of players on right now living in a world working together or against each other and RPING on top of it.

They should tweak movement speed and crafting times naturally in this game so that when someone dies it's not such a huge deal because all that work going down the drain will make people wanna quit I guess, unlike me I just get back up on the horse and keep going.

[Elindor]

1 - Yes, the current state of the game is not great because guild claims and claim protections are in but there is no way around those yet via war decs etc....so that is a problem.

2 - Keep in mind during these discussions that YO and the MMO have different planned systems - they will be two separate entities with somewhat different mechanics. YO does not plan to have war decs and official sieges, only the Judgement Hour mechanic.

3 - Judgement Hour is kinda lame, but my question is, will it be able to be set to more than an hour? Some people might want to set it basically to their severs' "prime time"

4 - If they just allowed objects to be PLACED inside a claim area then most of this issue right now would go away....log and crate ladders would be possible again. My other question on this is when they have actual siege ladders in, will those be able to override claims? Otherwise, like I said, remove the disable on placing moveable objects on enemy claims....

5 - I know a lot of people are like "well wait till its all in and you'll see, it'll work", which is partially true. However, even when you consider the end state of the MMO with claims and war decs and sieges, etc....there is an issue. The issue is that how often are those sorts of things going to happen? This game needs random raiding to be somewhat viable or the everynight of most players will get dull and boring and they will leave....and you'll be left with guild leaders like myself trying to maintain population. Guild leaders will be busy with overarching politics and kingdom wars and planning etc...but for the regular members of each guild its gonna get boring without random raiding....and for my group its not so much about RAIDING as it is the threat of BEING RAIDED

[Hoshiqua]

Personally, I plan to build a city and make a big combat training complex, where people who want a fight can go, pick up a training weapon and spare. Also hold actual military trainings for formations and discipline, and there will be plenty of guard duty to do if you want to open your city to outsiders of the guild.

But definitly there should be raiding mechanics.. maybe a kind of siege that gives less preparation time to defenders, but only allows the attackers to burn some wooden buildings and pillage containers and warehouses in the un-protected portion of the guild claim.

[Kalki777]

Personally, I plan to build a city and make a big combat training complex, where people who want a fight can go, pick up a training weapon and spare. Also hold actual military trainings for formations and discipline, and there will be plenty of guard duty to do if you want to open your city to outsiders of the guild.

But definitly there should be raiding mechanics.. maybe a kind of siege that gives less preparation time to defenders, but only allows the attackers to burn some wooden buildings and pillage containers and warehouses in the un-protected portion of the guild claim.

or they can remove this stupid Claim system and give us the old system back. Also I found it is SO UNREALISTIC and frustrating that patch notes said if you enter a claimed area it's inhabitants will be warned that you're there... what in the fuck! this is not a game striving for realism yet they bog you down with slow movement, heavy crafting, and PVE heaven. Hopefully they are reading this post...

[Hoshiqua]

Keep in mind we are also talking about MMO mechanics, they won't be quite the same. I don't remember patch notes saying inhabitants are notified when someone comes in the claim.. Don't you worry, their system is good, it should work. I'm just worried about the actual combat.. without a shield, it's just going to be a dumb damage trading.

[Ruphies]

so go and play mortal online with the other 20 pvpers who are left there

lol

[Uno]

Judgement hour is a very good idea, and the fact that none of you haters stopped a minute to explain why it would be a bad idea says it all on how much you thought this up (the process is more or less this: I can't raid my neighbors anymore > whine on forum and threaten to quit or do it for good).

What was a complete failure is the strategy adopted by the devs, but you should have gotten accostumed by now to the complete lack of logic and planning of this team. They did it all backwards: instead of implementing siege weapons > judgement hour > claims the did the contrary, effectively shutting down PvP, as you said, during the development process.

Going back to Judgement hour it is a good idea because most server admin are good people with common sense, unlike you, and will set the judgement hour in the prime time of the server, so everyone who wants to be online will be there and those who can't be there will have to have chosen to be in a decent group, where others will be online to defend in their absence, and not just them and their roommate as it's happening now. Also, good luck in defending 300 useless square meters of town with the bunch of 5 people who built it.

[Uno]

or they can remove this stupid Claim system and give us the old system back.

don't build monuments and you have removed the claim system.

[Hoshiqua]

Judgement hour is a bad idea because it is going to KILL internation servers. Almost all the server I've played on has people active on them at all time, and the people that will end up never being able to defend their shit will end up having to leave. Beside, one hour is too short. Why not make a proper war system ? Wouldn't it be a good advancement that could be carried over to the MMO, unlike the judgment hour ? Plus, the fact that all the claims just go away for an hour is stupid. There is nothing even a bit diplomatic or political in this, which is supposed to be at the heart of the game. Finally, I think it is stupid because.. what if you go out to attack someone, and your base gets raided while you are away attacking someone else ? The randomness of attacks at that time is too much, especially if your warehouses will be able to be raided, too.

Please stay polite. This is a forum to discuss ideas, also. Not to call eachother stupid. The mod should at least edit your post !

[Elindor]

Judgement Hour is lame if it's literally only an hour, and if it can be set to more than an hour then it's really almost a war declaration system similar to the MMO where each faction can set an "active" time period of 8 or so hours a day that they can be sieged. So if it's really almost a proper war dec system then like someone else said - just MAKE a proper war dec system, and like he also said, then your work will be carried over to the MMO.

Our point is why have a separate system for both? Also, on a different note, the idea is lame - it's like that movie where the police don't do shit about crimes for a night....come on.

And as far as developement - until you have a working war dec system, just allow objects to be PLACED inside claim areas and boom....raiding is back.

[Tbiggy]

It is funny to see how people are in for only PVP gaming and not enjoy the other things that make the game marketable. If no one did anything but PVP there would not be towns, cities or castles to raid or food and equipment to support the raids and defense.

[MickeySmith]

I have to agree Judgement Hour is a bad idea. Wartune has a similar method. As many have said that one hour of the day if it is set in stone may be an hour that you are never able to be online. If they make the hour random I think that would be better. However, you wouldn't be able to plan for it and raid groups would be out of luck.

I would like a war system like Ultima Online where two groups declare and accept a war that allows their groups to siege each other whenever they wish until one decides to call a truce. In this manner those groups that wish to opt out of pvp can do so but will not limit those groups that want to siege all the time. Those groups that want to pvp alot can just declare on every group they find if they wish. Yes not all groups will accept but there will be enough to keep you busy. We had a group on the server I played in UO that had no less than a 100 wars going on all the time.

When people make comments suggesting that others deal with the pvp you are thinking from only your perspective and that is as selfish as those who don't want to pvp saying they want no pvp. There has to be a happy middle ground where both groups of players can have fun. The game is setup with both crafting and combat. A player should be able to choose to do either/or as well as both if they want. Whatever makes it fun for them as the player. Because if a player is not having fun they will simply quit and find a game they like. You can be casual about it and say let them go. However if enough of them go the game will just close. Don't say that won't happen because plenty of good games have closed down their servers.

[Uno]

Judgement hour is a bad idea because it is going to KILL internation servers. Almost all the server I've played on has people active on them at all time, and the people that will end up never being able to defend their shit will end up having to leave.

Blatant lies. Most servers are national and the international ones are continental, and if they aren't they will become such, I see no problem with this. Stop pretending you are playing the MMORPG because you aren't. I can't figure why should I care if people play when I'm offline, the ONLY argument that makes sense is that no smart ass like you and the few others who complain about judgement hour would be able to raid castles when there is none, or almost, to defend it. Tough luck for you.

Judgement Hour is lame if it's literally only an hour, and if it can be set to more than an hour then it's really almost a war declaration system

So if I can raid for one hour it's lame, if I can raid for 2 hours I declared a war but you are still not happy about it, in any case it is lame and the reason is because you said so.
ROFLMAO

I have to agree Judgement Hour is a bad idea. Wartune has a similar method. As many have said that one hour of the day if it is set in stone may be an hour that you are never able to be online. If they make the hour random I think that would be better. However, you wouldn't be able to plan for it and raid groups would be out of luck.

If many people say the same BS, that doesn't turn it into something that makes sense. If you are not able to be online at the time of judgement hour find a server that shares your prime time. You should have done it in the first place if you ask me, as I believe the aim of every player in their right mind is to be online when most other players are.

It is funny to see how people are in for only PVP gaming and not enjoy the other things that make the game marketable. If no one did anything but PVP there would not be towns, cities or castles to raid or food and equipment to support the raids and defense.

Who said they don't enjoy the rest of the game? The fact they don't complain about it should suggest you that they do enjoy it. They just don't enjoy PvP, and I don't see how they could given that the developers "logic" in deploying updates has shut down PvP for 2 months at least.

[Ausrick]

Without arguing, just adding some insight from the views from my server. This Judgement Hour (and the current claim system) seems like a very blunt, broad stroke, all or nothing, solution.

I'm not complaining because I realize this is Alpha and under development yet still being played by a lot of people, so it creates a dynamic... the Devs introduce something, and add finesse and refinement later.

Claims currently are very overarching and not very tun-able.... yet. all or nothing. You can't, for instance, configure your claims to only protect against terraforming or tree chopping for instance. or let people still use a Smithy or Carpentry shop. or have it not flag neutrals as tresspassers... It's all or nothing.

There are tables in the DB for guild relations... this will be much more elegant I imagine once it is implemented.

Likewise, Judgement Hour, beyond timing, is equally currently untuneable. It's like the current choice is only to have claims where within the radius nobody can do anything to a specific time when sheer pandemonium is declared and nothing is off limits (except GM's can still kick and ban I suppose.)

Now, in time, if the Devs add lots more tunability (like they already somewhat have to other aspects of the world.xml) and look hard at how the community runs with those settings and tweaks and morphs them then they will likely acquire knowledge that will help in the future development of the game and the MMO.

...it just, as it stands currently, seems very heavy handed: on or off, 0 or 1. So I would be hesitant to enable what seems like "Kristallnacht" on a server that I didn't want to see burn down like a bad sociology experiment.

It seems like if you want a consistent feel to your server, with out oscillating vendettas and forced cease-fires you will probably run Judgement Hour with settings of 0 OR 24/7 (say if you are of the hardcore pvp and players police their own viewpoint.) ...That way players know what to expect, as opposed to a "yay 'build cool stuff' Tuesdays are awesome but watch out for 'hide your kids hide your wife' Thursdays man, those are rough" type scenarios.

[AthaloGaelin]

I think PVP is great... but I don't like the idea that people able to log in during judgement hours are given an advantage over players who's lives may prohibit them from getting online. Judgement hour should only apply to claims with online members during the hour. This feature (especially if implemented in the MMO) is going to run casual players off by the masses, resulting in profit losses.

You should never cater an MMORPG to PVPers (I myself am one), because casual PVEers make up the biggest portion of an MMORPG community. PVErs account for most of the money a game company makes. You run them off, the game loses a tremendous amount of revenue.

It also has detrimental effects on games in development. You can look at rust and DayZ for example. Of all the gamers playing early access games, most are PVErs. When people bought Rust and DayZ for the survival PVE aspects, they quickly discovered that the game was catered to PVPers, and so, budgets dropped, less copies are sold, devs stop working on their games, and eventually they sit stagnant for over a year in early alpha, when they should be in open beta. I doubt Rust or DayZ will even release a full, working game. They'll eventually just release a busted game, and run.

I love PVP myself, but it's better that the world, the environment, and overall playability of the game receives the most attention during Alpha. Otherwise, you may never get a finished game.

[Stormsblade]

I can't believe I just read someone argue that the majority of Rust and Dayz players were PvE players driven away by PvP.

The things you hear online lol

[DoomBringer]

Just some PvE hamsters squeaking...

[Stormsblade]

I propose the best way to approach this issue is to accept that the game can be designed to protect the interests of both PvE and PvP oriented players (or those many of us interested in both.)

As far as protection on claims and property rights outside of sieges, I would suggest that absolute immunity and consensual style interaction would be far too stringent, and would likely cause people to refuse to PvP unless they feel they are at a significant advantage (and in turn, minimize their exposure to risk.)

There does, however, need to be some check and balance on midnight raids that swoop in and rob/destroy everything you own because you are offline.

I argue that judgement hour fills that roll well in LiF:YO.
In the MMO, flexibility to allow the claim owner to decide when their claim goes live to raid would be beneficial.

TL;DR
People shouldn't lose their things solely because they are offline.
However, owning land and property should carry with it manageable risk.
Raiding should carry with it the potential for great reward.

[Hoshiqua]

Please read the wiki.. judgment hour is NOT a feature for MMO. MMO will actually have war, and general diplomacy mechanics (vassalship, friendly, neutral, hostile, at war..). Go read the wiki to know more about it.

[Sequester]

What a load of care bear crying bullshit that they have to add a "judgement" hour so all the little care bears can get together and huddle in their town when they KNOW the bandits are coming. Let's look at history and see how unrealistic this game is because a) bandits are random and b) they steal your loot weather it be in your chicken coops or on your person. This game is not meant for PVPERS and if you call the devs out on it they will say "its a work in progress", more like a taking a step back. Over all I doubt there will be another game that allows you to interact with objects and steal from them like this, but they just had to remove it.

I find it funny that all the "hardcore PVPers" complain that they will not be able to slaughter farmers in their sleep.

DF and MO are everything but a success story and should in no way be used as a blueprint for LiF. In essence if the wolfes are allowed to kill all sheep, the sheep will leave and in the end the wolfes will die of boredom. Changing DF into counterstrike with swords and wands did not increase the population. If you want to play such a game LiF is not for you. Here is what the devs say:

"LiF is like Darkfall Online and/or Shadowbane in terms of free PvP, massive siege events and global politics.

BUT!
• LiF’s game design concept is aimed at protecting newbies and peaceful players from non stop ganking by PvP hungry players. This will be achieved mostly by a bigger impact of the alignment system on player decisions. Player with negative alignment will lose significantly more skill points on death and should think thrice before ganking some newbie just for "Lulz"
• Innovative Battle system will provide a clean, lagless instanced battleground that won't be disturbed by 3rd parties. Precise statistics will be calculated and stored in LiF history records. As a result, participants will have a solid foundation to boast about their victories on the forums
• LiF will contain tweaks on classic siege systems according to our own experience with numerous sieges in DF and SB"

I think we will see very few bandits in the end. So if you plan on becoming one be prepared for a lonely and miserable life.

[Hoshiqua]

I think we will see very few bandits in the end. So if you plan on becoming one be prepared for a lonely and miserable life.

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Also, if I may add, this is wrong.
In the MMO, there will be two types of claims : personal and guild claims. most villages will need a guild claim, and know what ? The whole radius won't be protected. That's right. Only a small portion, at the center, will actually be protected 24/24 against bandits.. the rest will be here to pillage ALL the time if you are at war with another entity. So best prepare YOUR ass for bandits and raiders and sieges, because people like you are the sheeps that will get slaughtered But remember, sheeps can have very sharp teeth.

By that I mean, sure, you'll be protected to an extent, but if you are to achieve anything worth it, you will be exposed if you don't grow some balls and learn to fight, or pay / swear fealthy to someone so he does it.

[Azzerhoden]

I think we will see very few bandits in the end. So if you plan on becoming one be prepared for a lonely and miserable life.

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Also, if I may add, this is wrong.
In the MMO, there will be two types of claims : personal and guild claims. most villages will need a guild claim, and know what ? The whole radius won't be protected. That's right. Only a small portion, at the center, will actually be protected 24/24 against bandits.. the rest will be here to pillage ALL the time if you are at war with another entity. So best prepare YOUR ass for bandits and raiders and sieges, because people like you are the sheeps that will get slaughtered But remember, sheeps can have very sharp teeth.

By that I mean, sure, you'll be protected to an extent, but if you are to achieve anything worth it, you will be exposed if you don't grow some balls and learn to fight, or pay / swear fealthy to someone so he does it.

+1

Well said Hoshiqua!

[Sequester]

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Also, if I may add, this is wrong.
In the MMO, there will be two types of claims : personal and guild claims. most villages will need a guild claim, and know what ? The whole radius won't be protected. That's right. Only a small portion, at the center, will actually be protected 24/24 against bandits.. the rest will be here to pillage ALL the time if you are at war with another entity. So best prepare YOUR ass for bandits and raiders and sieges, because people like you are the sheeps that will get slaughtered But remember, sheeps can have very sharp teeth.

By that I mean, sure, you'll be protected to an extent, but if you are to achieve anything worth it, you will be exposed if you don't grow some balls and learn to fight, or pay / swear fealthy to someone so he does it.

Although using the term "bandit" I was not referring to theft or robbery but to the crime of murder or manslaughter. That's why I was referring to the alignment hit. I have no idea what the war mechanics ar or how they will work. But I think your restriction "if you are at war with another entity" might actually be quite important if LiF wars are anything like EVE wars.

[Schweinebauch]

Hi guys!

I feel like I must stress some things here, because there is so much bullshit being posted.

There are actually a lot of people that enjoy the judgement hour thing for several reasons. We play on a Server whereas judgement hour is set for saturday&sunday for 3 hourse. We enjoy this, because you got both, the possibility to build and craft, plus the possibility to do fine larger scale pvp. The people are really active in judgement hour, which means that pvp 8v8 or so is often seen. Thats pretty much more intense than these 2v4 skrimishes I saw before introducing judgement hour.

Guild claims and judgement hour protect your town very well and I like it. My mates and me simply do not have the possibility to hop into the game like 24h to defend our base from griefers and thats what you actually want. Plus PvP is actually really possible outside your claim radius. If you want some hardcore pvp server where you are permaraided/griefed at night then look out for a server with judgement hour gone.

Else: And if you are not willing to play on these servers go play games that are designed for permaPvP and not for "farmville in 3D". There are many.

Plus another point for the devs:
I feel judgement hour is fine, and for the MMO you might consider having multiple servers with judgement hours for more sophisticated gamers as well as casuals as me.

Like: Server 1 6PM-12PM JH every day, Server 2 7PM-10PM on weekend. That would really make sense.

Last but not least: Forget about these whiners, you are moving towards a really nice direction. This aint Unreal Tournament, dont forget it.

LG

[Hoshiqua]

Hi guys!

I feel like I must stress some things here, because there is so much bullshit being posted.

Let me return this to you.

First and foremost, there will NOT be judgment hour on MMO. On MMO, creation of countries and kingdoms will be possible, and there will be actual war mechanics. Go read the info on the website & wiki.

Second, there are very few people that want 24 / 24 judgment hour. Why ? Because this game is not Rust, you can't just rebuild your base in a few hours of gameplay. But what heavy PvPers want is some way to go teach a lesson to the puss*es that hide in their castle. Judgment hour is a good temporary solution, but IMO the siege equipment is waaaaay too high for a game world with a scale such as YO. Might be suitable for MMO tho..

Third, you people got to stop stepping into debates thinking you are some very mature old wise, and say "stop whining" or "you kids should stop arguing".. this is really not the point of a forum, and if you want, you can also just ignore the debate. It's also a possibility, you know ?

[Schweinebauch]

Sorry if you got it rude. Just saying that the state of the game with permapvp and no punishment for it wasnt what I expected from this game. And I doubt that in MMO 247 raiding will be possible. If they do it with JH or prepared sieges isnt a problem for me. Said that this game will go into the right direction from what I have seen from its development so far. I just wanted to show these guys that there are some actually enjoying not being able to get permagriefed/raided when not IG, cause we got other things to do that being IG 16 hours a day.

LG

[Zynerchic]

I've been holding my tongue on the state of PvP until the Devs have made an official announcement stating that they've balanced and fine tuned it. Until then, I'm happy to just accept that the PvP combat is in its Alpha state and isn't working as intended, so why judge it just yet?

I do like what I'm hearing as far as what the future of PvP is supposed to be so here's to that

~Zyn

[Azzerhoden]

Sorry if you got it rude. Just saying that the state of the game with permapvp and no punishment for it wasnt what I expected from this game. And I doubt that in MMO 247 raiding will be possible. If they do it with JH or prepared sieges isnt a problem for me. Said that this game will go into the right direction from what I have seen from its development so far. I just wanted to show these guys that there are some actually enjoying not being able to get permagriefed/raided when not IG, cause we got other things to do that being IG 16 hours a day.

LG

Raiding will be possible 24/7 in the MMO. However, the skill lost from being over -50 in alignment is steep. Very steep. On YO servers with a high skill multiplier, this isn't that big a deal as it is easy to gain back lost skill.

Once all the 90 and 100 skill abilities are added, having a skill at 90 or 100 will be a big deal. With the normal skill gain set in the MMO, dropping from 100 to 80 will matter. Dropping below 60 and having to use low quality stuff will matter, especially when you go up against someone who is using better gear.

Right now none of this is that important as combat and weapons are not balanced yet.