Life is Feudal Official Forum

[DoomBringer]

When the alpha came out it was in much more viable state. You could actually steal shit from people if you got on their territory but now this permaclaim bullshit fucks everything up and there is no way to destroy that stupid monument either. So my question is, what's the point of the game right now? Building simulator for 23 hours a day with no raiding and just 1 hour for PvP during Judgement Day? This is complete bullshit, such a great game ruined.

[Alakar]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/290080/discussions/0/611701999532554534/

Read that, judgement hour isn't all that you think it is.

-Alakar Siann (Kingdoms of Arkhaya)

[Uno]

When the alpha came out it was in much more viable state. You could actually steal shit from people if you got on their territory but now this permaclaim bullshit fucks everything up and there is no way to destroy that stupid monument either. So my question is, what's the point of the game right now? Building simulator for 23 hours a day with no raiding and just 1 hour for PvP during Judgement Day? This is complete bullshit, such a great game ruined.

are you pretending you don't know we are still in active development phase and that you will have basic siege weapons next month, or are you really that uninformed?

[antonio70]

He really misunderstood that this isn't finished game and more features are coming. You judge unfinished game like it was already finished.

[Krinym]

game in July would be almost ready, and until then we will receive a lot of patches with innovations, siege damage, a horse, a readjustment of the combat system and much more. But despite all the current game will not be complete compared to what will happen in the MMO version. Now you can regulate and kill players taking their stuff even without the time of judgment.

[DoomBringer]

Jesus you fanboys are saddening. You do realize that siege mechanic ain't gonna help much? Yea sure it's gonna help a bit but it's still JUST one hour of free PvP, whilst it should be 24/hours a day, the way it should be. I ain't got time for dicking around with construction, I want to fuck shit up and I bet majority of other PvP players want that too otherwise game gets boring really quickly. It is simply not worth it to play this game for 1 hour/day of free PvP. I'm not counting random encounters since you aren't likely to kill anyone anyway, once you knock them down you can't even finish them and as soon as they get up they press sprint button.

I played this game since the release date on Steam and to see it fail like that, population dwindling is the worst shit ever. Ain't everyone is a happy farmer but also a murderer and a raider.

PS: I understand that MMO will not have that stupid Judgement Day crap and that's good but we're still a long way from MMO... And I truly hope this game won't die before MMO comes out if it comes out..

thx for the link Alakarsiann. I wish there would be 24 hour/day Judgement Day servers but that's pretty unlikely

[Sebas555]

I think you misunderstood what kind of game this is from the beginning... the dev team was very clear that they want to avoid the exact behaviour you want to have... greifers wacking everything they encounter. I taking more a route towards large scale fights and political games.

And if you had read a bit on Steam, Judgement hour patch came with new settings to mod the claim behaviour and pretty much do whatever you want with it. Many servers already found the feel we had not long ago by making the monuments not as restrictive as we know them from their introduction.

Your little rant here is just a proof that this might not be a game for you and should play some Chivalry if you want to "fuck shit up" all day...

Good day sir!

[Alakar]

You also fail to understand that Judgement Hour isn't necessarily limited to one actual hour. It is a world setting that can be changed to start at a certain time yes, but also to set on what days it will start on and for how long it will last.

[DoomBringer]

I think you misunderstood what kind of game this is from the beginning... the dev team was very clear that they want to avoid the exact behaviour you want to have... greifers wacking everything they encounter. I taking more a route towards large scale fights and political games.

And if you had read a bit on Steam, Judgement hour patch came with new settings to mod the claim behaviour and pretty much do whatever you want with it. Many servers already found the feel we had not long ago by making the monuments not as restrictive as we know them from their introduction.

Your little rant here is just a proof that this might not be a game for you and should play some Chivalry if you want to "fuck shit up" all day...

Good day sir!

You should look up what griefing is. I'm here for the PvP part of the game, I'm not here to exploit the game to make other players' in game lives as miserable as possible. PvP is as important part of the game as is PvE. And we're not talking global politics here in LiF: YO, it's a sandbox 64 player game on a relatively small map with no kingdom system. When the MMO comes out it will be a different story.

And on all servers I've been on, Judgement Day setting is only 1 hour per day which is clearly not enough and I'm certain that most PvP players would agree with me.

If you know a server with a prolonged judgement day settings then please let me know


Good day to you too

[Sebas555]

First... find a better server with better GM's!

It all depend on the server you are on... some brought back the "old feeling" by banning or modding the monuments...

And second, PvP is different from game to game. And even if this is a sandbox, it doesn't mean that you can just roam all day and "fuck shit up" like you said, when you want... On some servers, the politics and RP are huge already and this is where this game seems to be going as the development goes.

If you are here just for random roams and pillage, you might get disappointed... it's not the game, your just at the wrong place...

[Hoshiqua]

Well, he's not REALLY at the wrong place, except that MMO will fit his wishes of gameplay better, like a lot of players. On MMO, creating / joining a clan that spends time raiding and pillaging will be perfectly possible !

But even on MMO, sieges / raids will have to be planned, and the defenders will know in advance. What I was thinking about is focusing a big part of the ressources of the kingdom I'm building over time before the MMO, to building huge training and tournament areas, so people can have PvP all the time if they want, except they won't get loot or actually kill enemies, but they will fight other players, and train.

[Wolfhelm]

exactly how i feel hos, in YO i personally dont like judgement hour, it should be if 1/3 of that factions playerbase is on, then you can raid them, and something more elaborate for the mmo to prevent offline griefing, buut one hour is very little...

[DoomBringer]

Exactly what Hoshiqua said.

I just wish there would be more MMOish feel to YO without Judgement Day crap that practically ruins the game for PvP players...

If any of you guys know a server with good judgement day settings and/or banned monuments then please post the IP here

[Jinks86]

The issue is the claim system. I don't play much anymore because the claim system makes raiding impossible. Yes some of it will change with seige weapons but really they just need to make it so warehouses, gates and houses can be designated as guild buildings and usable by anyone in the guild or a personal claim and by yourself only.

Containers should not be protected on a claim as its just plain stupid. And picking up and placing an item down in a claim not your own should also be possible.

The point is for the game to be realistic not have magical forcefields. We used to have server wars now i just wander around and challenge people to duels. That being said looking forward to the continued progress of the game and changes it brings

[Stormsblade]

This is basically the same claim system as in the MMO.
They should rethink it to allow for more passive combat.

[DoomBringer]

I hope devs read this...
A lot of people are unhappy with current claim system and not a lot of people left playing the game regularly...
Something needs to be changed, for game's future sake

[Arel37]

Actually bandits and pirates are common in all games that have this concept and gives more fun to game. Lets give an example: Persistent World
There is workers that works in farms and mines and bandits attack them and tries to take their money and nearby faction members see them and kill the bandits. İts better to able pillage, loot, steal options. Without them game will be toooooooo boring after a while.

[Hoshiqua]

You guys should read the wiki before complaining. It will be very different in MMO !

In MMO, when you place a guild monument, a very large area will be claimed, yes, but a big portion of that area will be unprotected.. like, it belongs to you but it can be pillaged, only difference with the unclaimed world is that you can use the "trespasser" ability.

So yea, inner wall areas will be very hard to pillage, because you will need to besiege the thing, but most of the important points like the mines, the fields.. will be placed in the unprotected area, where you can be attacked, looted..

[Jinks86]

Nothing without a lock should be protected. Why would I go into someones base and everything be magically off limits to the point i cant build a ladder to get in or pick up a chest?

[Arel37]

how will devs solve this?

[StaalBurgher]

I'm here for the PvP part of the game,... PvP is as important part of the game as is PvE.

I understand what you say that the MMO will be different etc but I feel I need to repost this comment of mine for the benefit of all. It resolves around a gross misunderstanding of what the majority of players want from a game, i.e. those players that are not predominantly into PvP (at least if you want a decent player base) and how the competitive PvP section can hurt the experience of someone else.

For many of us it is the overall RPG experience of the sandbox where we want to create things. Risk, combat, death, war, loss is all acceptable as long as it happens within context. Random PvP is 99% out of context and that is what eventually kills the population in any game that supposedly contains non-PvP elements.

ALIGNMENT/GRIEFING/PvP-only
I have this feeling people still don't get the reality of why games like DF/MO struggle (not necessarily fail, let me be clear on that). I would like to think all of us would like LiF to have more than a "few" thousand total active subs 12 months after launch.

There are two aspects of the problem an open-PvP game faces;
- The majority of highly competitive PvPers will band together in a sub-section of such themed clans due to shared mindset instead of being spread around reasonably evenly.
- These PvP clans essentially force everyone else to play "their" game. RPG immersion is already low due to the open ended nature of a sandbox game. Eventually the players that have interest outside of only PvP get frustrated trying to find/maintain any semblance of an RPG game and quit. This leaves everyone poorer.

It is a sorry process whereby the more and more elite PvPers (let us for argument's sake say the top 20% of the ever reducing remaining population) cannibalizes the game until only those who are mainly interested in PvP are left. At this point the game reaches a stable equilibrium and Voila! You have MO/DF as they stand today; PvP arenas. So sad compared to when at launch we dared dream of realistic sandbox worlds that would support multiple player types. Multiple player types being essential if you want a subscription count higher than a "few" thousand.

The purpose of an alignment system should be to direct PvP to legitimate targets, i.e. realms that are at war with each other, 90%+ of PvP should take place there.

People will join this game with varied expectations of which PvP will only be one aspect. In nearly every open PvP game the PvP aspect crushes the life out of everything else. People don't mind losing, they do mind not being able to play the game they imagined a sandbox medieval world to entail.

For this reason any non-legitimate PvP needs to have very harsh penalties. I see some say the skill loss will be harsh. Well, it will be impossible to avoid alts and thus some side stepping of these penalties. I don't believe the very survival of a game should be entrusted to such a mechanic alone.

The majority of competitive players will want a part of the political landscape, i.e. kingdoms. It must be required that they apply non-abusive rules of behaviour to members. Clans that do so should gain tangible in-game competitive advantages. Thus making it a non-negotiable for any group that aspires to be a political force to have zero tolerance towards non-legitimate PvP. Non-war related PvP should be scarce unless it is really a lone band of thugs with no political leanings who can be effectively hunted by a local community and force them to leave or render them completely ineffectual.

FINAL WORD IN REPLY TO QUOTED POSTER: If you only want to PvP then you should HAVE to be a mercenary that sells his services and you just go from conflict to conflict fighting other clans that are on a war footing. Anything else and this game will struggle to keep enough players to make the sandbox work.

[Jinks86]

Here's the thing, this is sandbox. If you want there to be reprecussions to raiding then the players have to provide that. Its called roleplay. Do you think the Vikings or the Huns waited for a declaration of war before coming and taking what they wanted on a raid? Do you think tribes from the beginning of time just got along and shared and built because it was cool and fun? Hell no, he picked up a rock and bashed his neighbors head in and took his wife. Man is an animal and life is a zero sum game. His crops go bad and he needs to get by, maybe you worship a different god than him, hell maybe he just doesn't like you. Man doesn't need a reason to kill but he can dream up plenty. Tribes and then governments formed to protect their people under the Social Contract. You give up some freedoms and pay taxes in return for protection.

This is simulated life. Life. War and bloodshed is mans most natural state within that and lets be honest, there is only so much building you can do in a game before you get bored so you start over. So you say you want Roleplaying well freaking roleplay an answer to mans nature. Form a government or a group. Hire another one to protect you. Because if you don't, I'm coming and I'm taking what you have. Not because I want it. But because its a challenge and its fun. Its a game. So farmers and builders man up to the reality of life or don't play on a roleplaying server. Grow a pair or pledge to your betters who will fight to protect you

[StaalBurgher]

Here's the thing, this is sandbox. If you want there to be reprecussions to raiding then the players have to provide that. Its called roleplay.

You obviously didn't understand my point. I agree with you things should be player controlled but that is not the sum total of RP. It might be a small part of RP but there is vast amount of other things that can be done. The PvP if left unchecked will completely cannibalize all other RP aspects. Happens every time. You are just looking at it from your single perspective.

(1) Competitive PvPers group up in a smaller number of clans. They are not evenly spread throughout the community. Perfectly natural as like seek like but that is not "real life".

(2) There are no factors that benefit a community from stability and peace. As in "real life".

(3) There are no real repercussions/risks. If you lose a few times it is "just fun PvP" right? You are achieving your purpose. So you just keep coming. That is not how it happens in "real life" because you would be dead or at least incapable for the next 20 years because your young men are all dead.

(4) Unlike in "real life" if people don't like the situation they just stop playing = bad for game. And we aren't talking about PvE vs PvP. Lots of people like PvP, risk etc but often they also want more than that. They want societies that can be realistic and see their vision of the game grow. This means there must be context for PvP, i.e. War.

Anyone that wants to make War needs to be committed to also building community. Else you are not helping the game population.

"Real life" has no bearing on this topic.

(5) If PvP is not directed to legitimate targets that are at War everyone that is not 100% a PvP focused player is forced to play someone elses game. And it happens every day at prime time, every day. They are not concerned with context, just good PvP. That is perfectly fine but that makes the game untenable for anyone that wants something else in addition to PvP.

There must be space for the RPG side of the game to flourish or the population will not reach a good level.

(6) Basically it means any community that is not highly PvP focused is severely handicapped. That method has BEEN PROVEN to result in very low populations such as DF and MO.

You can talk about "player enforcement" blahblahblah all you want. That is only possible, or even fun, if both parties are equally into PvP. You are not understanding that unless multiple player types are viable in this game then the population will be low = slow development, ultimately fewer Wars, i.e. less PvP and eventually a sterile world.

[Jinks86]

Dude what server are you on where anyone but brand new people say they dont want pvp? Warfare and fighting the thrill of victory and the rebuilding after defeat are what will keep the game alive.

Ive played on servers where all it is trade and building, guess what happens? Everyone gets bored. Even the builders. Everyone leaves.

I know of at least two groups that are already forming societies and kingdoms and picking out their plots of land. They have Determined roles for their member of 300+. I doubt very much they're alone in this.

People will find protection if they are willing to give up some of their product. But most of that type will gladly join the big groups in order to do so. All you're promoting by limiting conflict is the supergroup you see on servers these days

Its not that multiple payer types aren't viable Its that you made a choice when you decided you didn't want to learn how to protect yourself. That's okay, that's fine. Now live with it. OR pick up that sword learn to fight and join the fun.

For the most part I have found that people who say they don't like pvp really just don't know how. So I usually run a little workshop and teach them the basics and whatever noobtown is on the server or I found one. Once someone shows them how the hard feelings kinda go away now that they can defend themselves

Everyone is gonna start at the main city. The people who only want peace and happiness and building stuff can stay there or at least close to there and not worry about much.

The people who venture out and stake a claim of their own, I think, are the type who will be willing to fight for it. Its about the dichotomy of the independent self reliant within us and the desire to bow your head to the man for safety

To tone a game down and magically protect people in a game called LIFE IS FEUDAL seems kinda silly. We all start in the same place and I will be very surprised if I dont see trainers on every corner and sellswords by the dozen

[StaalBurgher]

Dude what server are you on where anyone but brand new people say they dont want pvp?

There is a massive difference between that quote and what I said. Did you quote me by mistake?

Ignore the clear points I made if you want. MO and DF are living proof that any game that requires regular time consuming RPG activities such as building, harvesting will eventually be cannibalized by those who have a higher preference for PvP.

Everything you have said has been said in all those games beforehand. It never works like that. Repeating it does not make it true.

Either you give enough room for players who have a lower preference for competitive PvP to create an RPG atmosphere for themselves or you don't. No open PvP sandbox has ever managed this as is evidenced by laughably small group fights, people moaning about low population, not enough PvP etc. Simple red/blue alignment systems have never solved the problem because they are too easily sidestepped. A PvPer is always playing the game he wants, everyone else seems to have to sacrifice and it is that imbalance which drives people away.

If you want PvP you should declare an official War or suffer severe competitive handicaps. And by handicaps I mean on a group scale so that having political aspirations and enforcing behaviour on members are essential. Call it good governance. Either that or you need a hard-safe zone.

[Jinks86]

I see what youre saying you have to have both but I think you're making the exact mistake you claim I am. The game isnt divided between hardcore PvPers and Builders and farmers. The people who only want and know how to build and farm are a minority. As are the people who only want to fight. Most fall in the middle and participate in both. I don't think the divide is where you put it.

[StaalBurgher]

I see what youre saying you have to have both but I think you're making the exact mistake you claim I am. The game isnt divided between hardcore PvPers and Builders and farmers. The people who only want and know how to build and farm are a minority. As are the people who only want to fight. Most fall in the middle and participate in both. I don't think the divide is where you put it.

Then I am not explaining myself well on that point. I agree most players are a mixture of PvP, building, RP etc. And each player will vary his preferences over time.

Ultimate I would like to think the game is about building a medieval world of which PvP conquest is an aspect of. The 'winners' of this conquest aspect must have reasons to protect and build the RPG experience of the sandbox. Therefore those that want to fight for their kingdom AND build community should have advantage as opposed to those that just want to fight, because ultimate the fight-only type is adding much less to the sandbox. If not, the sandbox will remain sterile.

[Jinks86]

Where I differ is that I believe you suffocate the game if you try to regulate the combat.

No player I know will be bummed if there's less time involved in building, farming or if there are premade towns to visit.

Just about all of them would leave the game if combat became regulated to the point of just being annoying. They can pick up another game and do both of those easier and for less expense.

Hell the past 3 weeks since the updates with claims Ive watched 3 60+ servers drop to 4, 11 and 7. Its a migration everyone is playing other games til something happens to fix it.

[Blackcloud96]

http://imgur.com/Loiokjr

I made this a few months ago. LiF is probably somewhat close to case 2 but not that critical. I really hope it will change for the better after implementing some features. As for me I'm just gonna wait for major patches or mmo.

[StaalBurgher]

Just about all of them would leave the game if combat became regulated to the point of just being annoying. They can pick up another game and do both of those easier and for less expense.

Just remember right now there is no conquest. The game is unfinished.

I agree, naturally there has to be enough PvP outlets. The goal is not to have everyone sitting on their hands. The PvP just needs to be directed in a good way. Random PvP anywhere is not conducive to a stable RPG experience which is what you need to attract a decent sized population in the long run.

There are a number of suggestions one could make at this point. As long as the devs realize they will have to innovate here or suffer the same fate as every other PvP sandbox.