Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Jinks86]

Indeed.

I dig the slide but I think its works a bit differently. At least since the last 8 months Ive been on. Beginning of the game raiding is crucial. Its not knights, farmers and bandits. You build a bit and when you feel secure enough you set out and hit a group close by giving you a leg up on the resources needed to expand. Its not really a good vs evil thing. Its a matter of staying ahead of the curve. If you can get flax and training weapons or bows before your enemies, you have a huge technological advantage over them. So you hit 'em every now and then. Hell maybe you get their stash of flux and can get that gate up before they get theirs. Thats kind of a big deal at first. Its about screwing over their development while promoting that of those you protect

There are no good guys and bad guys. Its about survival. Ive watched patrols on either side turn to raids because everyone is so bored. Who gets raided? The Little guys on the border who dont have their walls up yet, not the big group over the hill.

They need to turn the default settings for claims to something more akin to how the game was before. Most GMs are either too lazy or too afraid to screw with it to change it and almost all the players want it. Its the best way to keep the game going through the growing pains

[Frontal]

Why are people calling this game a "realistic sandbox game" and then mentioning real life and then talking about pvp taking it over?

That's how medieval life was. Might made right. That is why conquerors became kings and greedy merchants became rich: they exploited the weak.

Now if you want to limit pvpers to benefit your roles, don't call it realistic or sandboxy. In a realistic sandbox game the weak will be exploited. There are many ways to counter it such as grouping up or paying for protection, these are all realistic sandox solutions.

Instead what you are asking for is themepark limitations to sandbox elements such as criminal flags, timed pvp, non-sandbox punishment for those that use might to set their mark in the game world.

What you want is to make your life easier without having to search for a realistic sandboxy solution to your problems.
That's the real issue with sandbox games, sheep rather quit than adapt.

[DoomBringer]

And the devs don't seem to care...

Daed gaem

[Amrock]

StaalBurgher explained perfectly the main point along all his post.
And as he said, DF/MO are wellknow examples which speak by themself.

The LIF concept may offer a nice soluce,
we will see once the whole system will be there.

[Jinks86]

StaalBurgher explained perfectly the main point along all his post.
And as he said, DF/MO are wellknow examples which speak by themself.

The LIF concept may offer a nice soluce,
we will see once the whole system will be there.

I cant understand you...

[MickeySmith]

It's unrealistic to claim how things are in real life as compared to a game. In real life villages will not be devoid of life just letting you waltz in and take what you want. In a game setting that is quite possible. If there isn't secure storage then what are players supposed to do when they are offline?

In real life you can't just quit unless of course you want to commit suicide. In a game you just quit when you are sick of the game. When players quit because of lame game mechanics that allow griefers to ruin the fun of the majority of the players (which is never pvp in MMOs) then the game will tank.

There has to be a happy medium between pvp players and pve players.

[Tymefor]

I think its time the heavily PVP focused players realise something. This game is not for them, it wont be and most importantly it shouldn't be.

I am totally happy to see them all decide to quit. They are only a minority of all possible play styles. Why do we even want them ???

the Devs define SANDOX quite clearly in the gameinfo section !!

"Sandbox means that our goal is to design virtual world with its own set of mechanisms and rules that will let players to do anything within our world that their imagination desires. Like a real sandbox, with some sand, some tools and your hands you can do, whatever you want – dig a tunnels, shovel moats, build castles and raise hills.

These are the exact same things you will be able to do in our game: you can shape terrain in any way you like, such as raise ground, lower ground, flatten it for further building placements, dig tunnels, even find ore veins and mine them. You can build whole underground cities, as you are not limited with width or height of your tunnels. You can make a huge pyramid with your friends and dig a maze inside of it just for fun. Only limitation is your imagination! Please watch our pre-alpha videos to get a look at these aspects of the game in more detail.

If you don’t want to dwell underground you can make a home for yourself, a whole village, town or even a castle. You can also make it sandbox-style. We will let you build whole castle walls with sections, allowing you to build it however you like. Who knows, maybe you will be the first one to build the Great Wall in our world. Same goes for buildings – you can either choose to use preset buildings (such as windmills, warehouses, keeps etc.) or design your own multistory building square by square and build them however you like."

NOTHING ABOUT PVP BEING SANDBOXY It has rules and so it should. I mean you get "free PVP". Meaning you can attack anyone whenever you want, just with consequences and varying degrees of difficulty (walls). Really that's more than I would have granted.

PVP should be limited to rare open world encounters. But mainly to planned, timed and scheduled encounters between groups that have already invested time into creating guilds. Invested time into building towns, supporting rp, helping farmers/crafters and training warriors.

In short the best PVP should be a reward for teams immersing in the sandbox game. Something that's anticipated and strived for. oh wait........that's what's already planned.

[Hoshiqua]

The PvP players are far from being a minority... they just all left the forums because they felt betrayed. When the map is filled with ugly castles, old buildings, ruins everywhere, no trees, all the farmland being farmed, you will be happy the PvPers are there to bring life. Yes, this is right, the PvP players bring life to the game, only PvP will make the world dynamic !

But it seems the game will be carebear oriented, which seems stupid considering it is the dark ages (a period far from being peaceful). I don't know what to do.. if I hadn't formed a 40 members large guild for the future MMO, I think I would already have quited this game.

[DoomBringer]

This game is gonna die very soon without decent PvP backbone to it.
At this moment, this game doesn't live up to its PvP full loot motto.
just my 2 cents

[MickeySmith]

PvP players do represent the minority in most MMOs. I've found they are usually the most vocal when it comes to forum traffic though. Maybe it's all that aggression they want to pour out into the game

I feel the game needs pvp as well. Since the only combat in the game will be pvp I think the game needs a good defined set of mechanics for organized pvp. Several things have been suggested in the suggestions area. It was stated on the advertising for this game that it plans to follow the footsteps of UO and SWG. Both of these games had pvp so I'm assuming this one will as well. Since the DEVs were inspired by those games I'm sure we can trust them to add some decent pvp rules in.

I also feel there needs to be a good balance with the pvp and the pve players. You can't just let pvp run rampant or you will drive the players away that want to pve. They make up the bulk of the player base so you can't run them off. In my opinion pvp should be an option that players can opt out of on their claims area. In the open world pvp is free to rule. Let players choose to have their claims area raidable or not. Players should get to play the way they want to on their own little piece of the game world.

[Frontal]

You have no idea how a sandbox mmo works if you think that the lack of pvp only affects fights.

Pvp affects every system in the game and every player. When you kill an animal for it's resources you are pvping, vhen you mine some iron you are pvping. It's called resource association with risk/reward.

Anyway good luck with your inferior minecraft peace mode mmo, I'm sure it'll be booming with population just like YO is now. /rolleyes

[Fireraizer]

In my opinion the mmo will cater more to pvp and YO will be for the Care Bears. I think that was one of the points of making YO. Trying to incorporate the same rules into the mmo as used in YO will definitely crash the game.

[Hoshiqua]

It will not be the same rules. Go see the wiki, it will be totally different ! The only thing in common will be the alignment system.

[Ant0ny]

Bumping the thread

About MMO: I can understand, if devs will only polish and balance PVP in curent state, but i really really hope that they will increase battle sizes. Only 200 men in fight - isnt fuedal at all

[Stormsblade]

I think 60v60 would be healthy.... 100v100 as an absolute maximum, if the engine can even support such a number.

But I know some of you dream of really huge fights, on the scale of actual medieval war. Technological limitations render this difficult, if not impossible, as the server load increases exponentially for each individual client that needs to cross communicate.

[Ant0ny]

I think 60v60 would be healthy.... 100v100 as an absolute maximum, if the engine can even support such a number.

But I know some of you dream of really huge fights, on the scale of actual medieval war. Technological limitations render this difficult, if not impossible, as the server load increases exponentially for each individual client that needs to cross communicate.

Well, its not impossible, as we know the most huge battle in MMO ever was in Eve online game - 7548 men in one location. Dont foget that this game calculating sh%tload of information and others metrics.

[HolyCrusader]

I think its time the heavily PVP focused players realise something. This game is not for them, it wont be and most importantly it shouldn't be.

I am totally happy to see them all decide to quit. They are only a minority of all possible play styles. Why do we even want them ???

the Devs define SANDOX quite clearly in the gameinfo section !!

"Sandbox means that our goal is to design virtual world with its own set of mechanisms and rules that will let players to do anything within our world that their imagination desires. Like a real sandbox, with some sand, some tools and your hands you can do, whatever you want – dig a tunnels, shovel moats, build castles and raise hills.

These are the exact same things you will be able to do in our game: you can shape terrain in any way you like, such as raise ground, lower ground, flatten it for further building placements, dig tunnels, even find ore veins and mine them. You can build whole underground cities, as you are not limited with width or height of your tunnels. You can make a huge pyramid with your friends and dig a maze inside of it just for fun. Only limitation is your imagination! Please watch our pre-alpha videos to get a look at these aspects of the game in more detail.

If you don’t want to dwell underground you can make a home for yourself, a whole village, town or even a castle. You can also make it sandbox-style. We will let you build whole castle walls with sections, allowing you to build it however you like. Who knows, maybe you will be the first one to build the Great Wall in our world. Same goes for buildings – you can either choose to use preset buildings (such as windmills, warehouses, keeps etc.) or design your own multistory building square by square and build them however you like."

NOTHING ABOUT PVP BEING SANDBOXY It has rules and so it should. I mean you get "free PVP". Meaning you can attack anyone whenever you want, just with consequences and varying degrees of difficulty (walls). Really that's more than I would have granted.

PVP should be limited to rare open world encounters. But mainly to planned, timed and scheduled encounters between groups that have already invested time into creating guilds. Invested time into building towns, supporting rp, helping farmers/crafters and training warriors.

In short the best PVP should be a reward for teams immersing in the sandbox game. Something that's anticipated and strived for. oh wait........that's what's already planned.

"Do whatever you want"

For me, thats killing idiots like you.

[Ant0ny]

You're contradicting youself.

"Sandbox means that our goal is to design virtual world with its own set of mechanisms and rules that will let players to do anything within our world that their imagination desires. Like a real sandbox, with some sand, some tools and your hands you can do, whatever you want – dig a tunnels, shovel moats, build castles and raise hills.

PVP should be limited

Sandbox means that you can do whatever you want, as you rightly said, so if i (and thousands of others) want to have huge medieval battles, i should get it, since its sandbox. Or this will be PEGI 3+ "Medieval life sim".

The game production is a commercial activity, primarily focused on the mass consumer. And the masses want blood, gore and feeling of being a horseman charging with hundreds battle-brothers on hordes of pikemen in a beautiful package of medieval life
Deal with it

[HolyCrusader]

You're contradicting youself.

"Sandbox means that our goal is to design virtual world with its own set of mechanisms and rules that will let players to do anything within our world that their imagination desires. Like a real sandbox, with some sand, some tools and your hands you can do, whatever you want – dig a tunnels, shovel moats, build castles and raise hills.

PVP should be limited

Sandbox means that you can do whatever you want, as you rightly said, so if i (and thousands of others) want to have huge medieval battles, i should get it, since its sandbox. Or this will be PEGI 3+ "Medieval life sim".

The game production is a commercial activity, primarily focused on the mass consumer. And the masses want blood, gore and feeling of being a horseman charging with hundreds battle-brothers on hordes of pikemen in a beautiful package of medieval life
Deal with it

Let's find his server and kill him until he quits

[Arrakis]

Please keep it civilized and refrain yourselves from any namecalling and similar unpleasantries.

Thank you.

[RookIver]

I'm all down with PvP, but a problem does arises when established players repeatedly kill new players who have nothing more than there starting cookies for shits and giggles. Unrestricted PvP may as well be implemented because a dedicated few will always find a way, it's better to have everyone on an equal playing field.

[Sequester]

What most people ignore in this thread is the impact of the alignment system. Let's see what the devs say about this:

"LiF is like Darkfall Online and/or Shadowbane

in terms of free PvP, massive siege events and global politics.

BUT!
• LiF’s game design concept is aimed at protecting newbies and peaceful players from non stop ganking by PvP hungry players. This will be achieved mostly by a bigger impact of the alignment system on player decisions. Player with negative alignment will lose significantly more skill points on death and should think thrice before ganking some newbie just for "Lulz"
• Innovative Battle system will provide a clean, lagless instanced battleground that won't be disturbed by 3rd parties. Precise statistics will be calculated and stored in LiF history records. As a result, participants will have a solid foundation to boast about their victories on the forums
• LiF will contain tweaks on classic siege systems according to our own experience with numerous sieges in DF and SB"


So all these people claiming they would "dick around all day" or "kill idiots like you" will suffer hiuge drawbacks. I don't think it will be viable to slay whoever you meet and take all his stuff. In the end it's all risk and reward. Would you risk a huge skill hit on death just to get a bit of clay from that noob? Perhaps not. Would you do it and get a warhorse? Probably

[Hoshiqua]

Well, PvP is probably going to be 80% character skill 20% player skill based, so peaceful players will just be able to train up their skill and resist by doing one of the incredibly difficult to master combos (sarcasm) or use one of the nonsense archer abilities, so they should be able to oppose resistance even to seasoned PvPers. Even more if they have the advantage of number.

Plus, let us add this is a sandbox game : if a peaceful group of players finds itself getting raided constantly, they can always pay tribute to the raiding party or pay / swear fealthy to another group for protection.

Plus, I do not understand people that want this game to have simple PvP mechanics (battle / raiding mechanics aswell as actual combat mechanics).. there are already PLENTY of games out here that have that kind of combat, based on how much you grind it. Thousands of them. And there are also a few games that are basically LiF with better survival / construction / mining.. all peaceful / PvE actions, with kind of free PvP with mechanics that are all.. mathematical. Why won't those people just allow one game to advantage the PvP players, and try to bring the FUN part of the game in that direction ? Why must they always come and ruin it ? If you want a game with mindless PvP that even a 3 years old can understand, that allows you to do as much as LiF, and even more, peaceful wise, go play Wurm Online ! Hell, you can even go on a server cluster that doesn't allow PvP / raiding at all !

And don't bring up the bad argument "Those players have the money the devs are working for". It is simply not true. Yes, they represent a significant part of the playerbase, but MANY players like PvP (at LOT more) at some extent. When you look at games that give players the choice of being in a PvP or peaceful zone, there usually is at least the same amount of players in the PvP zone.

And it would be even more that way in LiF, because, believe me, once you built pretty much everything, you are bored. And PvP is going to prevent you from reaching that point, or even if you do, it will feel 1000x rewarding.

[Maitri]

Unfortunately my wonderful, well articulated post died because this forum is rather basic in it's options for multi-quotation but I will sum it up as such:

Let's find his server and kill him until he quits

This is the kind of behavior we want to avoid and sadly, it seems, the kind of behavior most PvP-enthusiasts want to spread. Most people are afraid of this specific behavior. The behavior of 'kill everyone just because we can' and the 'fun born from ruining other's fun' as that feels like what most want from their PvP.

I think that a good number WOULD actually leave peasants alone if they paid a tribute of sorts. However I think an equal number if not a greater number would just slaughter them for two reasons:

They'd get the 'tribute' and them some, anyways.
Slaughtering them is asserting their power and many who prefer PvP as a mainstay to their games enjoy the relishing of power over another person.

If I believed that most would actually play the game as if it were a real medieval life, i.e. trying to gain the biggest advantage without ruining their 'stock' (i.e. the peasants producing said advantage) then I might be okay with it but my experience with many, many MMO games speak volumes about how this will not be the case.

[Hoshiqua]

24h JH server would be unlivable. It would basically be a claimless server. Sure, you would like it to happen when you can't get through some walls, but imagine starting out on such server.. EVERY day you got to restart almost EVERYTHING because people can just come and literally steal everything you own. Shorter judgment hours however allow you to know WHEN to connect to defend yourself. But I do agree that 1h is not enough. 3 hours would be much better I think. But YO isn't even a game made for that anyway, MMO will have much better mechanics, but you already know it.

But even then, I still think the game won't be enough based on actual player skill rather than character skill.. so sieging will be purely based on number. Maybe you'll be able to raid some parts of the cities, the outer parts, but people are simply going to store everything of value in the protected core.