Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Sting5]

I've read few comments considering permanent death in forum, which was highly discussed, for YES! and NO! on both sides, and I thought:

What if this could be a game difficulty? When You create a character, You choose either to play with character until he/she dies or not? This option could be chosen when creating a char. I am only suggesting this option because LiF is not a game where You grind months for exeptional gear items. Hence, this would give some variety in gameplay for players tired from playing with their very advanced chars/guilds.

Now financial part of it - You buy game account for 20 EUR. If You die with "permanent death ON", then You can create new char for free, because You have none, again choosing with permadeath or not. AND when You get tired of hardcore mode - just select "permanent death - OFF" and continue play normally. If suppose You decide You want to get some challenge again, pay additional 10 EUR and now You can have both game modes any time

[Telakh]

I think there will be no point to make his.

Imagine, you create a character, level up his skills and stats to the cap, get all the necessary gear and what do you do next? Guid wars? Well, you can't have wars daily.

I suppose you will create another character and make him a badass to raid noobs around you. So you form a gang and make yourselves red. Someday you will get killed and will have to start leveling this character from the beginning. And this process is infinite. While you have a main character for crafting and guildwars, your badass char can do whatever you want while you will always have skills to level up.

I am afraid the gameplay will be this kind unless something will change in the carma system.
Like adding Karma/reputation to the account or to the guild.

[Sting5]

I suppose you will create another character and make him a badass to raid noobs around you. So you form a gang and make yourselves red. Someday you will get killed and will have to start leveling this character from the beginning. And this process is infinite. While you have a main character for crafting and guildwars, your badass char can do whatever you want while you will always have skills to level up.

Erm yes, I suppose, but when You choose permanent death option, Your main goal is to avoid death, not ask for it (n'est pas)?
I was suggesting this as a mode for a game, where You can try to survive as long as You can (something like survival mode), but when You get bored, You can go back to normal after dying and creating new character.

Or were You trying to show me some kind of exploit of this system, Telakh?

[Telakh]

I was trying to show you that being dead as a crminial and loosing all skillpoints is equal to permadeath =) And then you get resurrected nearly as a brand new character.

[Seppuku]

I was trying to show you that being dead as a crminial and loosing all skillpoints is equal to permadeath =) And then you get resurrected nearly as a brand new character.

You lose all your skill points if you die as a red?

[Telakh]

I was trying to show you that being dead as a crminial and loosing all skillpoints is equal to permadeath =) And then you get resurrected nearly as a brand new character.

You lose all your skill points if you die as a red?

You loose from 1 to 600 skillpoints upon death, depending on your karma, but I can't say exatly how much will you loose at different levels. If you are red then it makes sence to drop your karma even lower. And at the very bottom you will loose 600.

[Seppuku]

I was trying to show you that being dead as a crminial and loosing all skillpoints is equal to permadeath =) And then you get resurrected nearly as a brand new character.

You lose all your skill points if you die as a red?

You loose from 1 to 600 skillpoints upon death, depending on your karma, but I can't say exatly how much will you loose at different levels. If you are red then it makes sence to drop your karma even lower. And at the very bottom you will loose 600.

So it sounds like becoming red is a deathwish, and no one will want to get involved in any conflicts in the off chance that they go red. Will there be any advantage to being a bandit, or are we all supposed to do our fighting within the confines of guild vs guild activity?

[Telakh]

The only advantage of being a bandit is a full-loot system There is no point to attack a peasant but you can always strip down some AFKing knight.

And as I have said, I suspect that everyone will just train another character for criminal actions that can be sacrificed without any consequences for the prime character.

[Seppuku]

The only advantage of being a bandit is a full-loot system There is no point to attack a peasant but you can always strip down some AFKing knight.

And as I have said, I suspect that everyone will just train another character for criminal actions that can be sacrificed without any consequences for the prime character.

So if you kill a knight you won't become red. It's just a peasant protection system?

I generally play a rogue/bandit. On Mount and Blade PW I generally join the outlaws even though the class selection is not as good and it is meant to be a punishment for the unruly.

Will you have any failsafes or protection against peasants who purposefully jump in front of your attacks while you are hunting?

[Telakh]

There is no difference between knight and peasant in karma loss if you kill one. But in case of a knight you will get his warhorse and armor and that is why it is worth being a bandit - you have asked and I have answered.

And no, there is no way to protect yourself from someone jumping in front of your swing. There is no friedlyfire penalties withing the party and guid but in all other cases you should watch whom you attack and who accompanies you.

[Seppuku]

Interesting. So which in the end would be more beneficial? A Warhorse and Plate Armor, or Skills? Doesn't sound like a very balanced system. Sounds like the last thing you would ever want to do is go red. I just don't see anyone actually being an actual bandit and it degrading into a bunch of jump in front of your swing blue blocker tactics that Darkfall and Mortal were plagued with.

[Telakh]

Sounds good for me. You want some fighting - start a war. You want to be a bandit - suffer consequences.
And you can read my opinion on the gameplay in the first reply =)

[Seppuku]

Sounds good for me. You want some fighting - start a war. You want to be a bandit - suffer consequences.
And you can read my opinion on the gameplay in the first reply =)

Wait you think that a bunch of naked griefers jumping in front of players when they are trying to legitimately play is a good thing?

I'm just wondering why anyone would ever want to be a bandit. Seems like a awfully harsh penalty for someone providing a break from uninterrupted resource hoarding.

I just think you'll have a real problem like all the other games with such a harsh penalty and no protection from griefers who's entire lives will be devoted to jumping in front of people while they swing.

I've played a lot of these games, and I don't feel that your outlaw system is going to be anything different in fact it sounds like a griefer's dream come true.

Basically from what you've said only a moron would go red, and you're better off just trying to trick players into hitting you first so you can murder them without penalty... Is that about right? I really hope that I'm just not aware of the other game mechanics that will fall into play, but by your description it just sounds like your typical blue blocking grief party bandit system.

[Protunia]

There is no difference between knight and peasant in karma loss if you kill one. But in case of a knight you will get his warhorse and armor and that is why it is worth being a bandit - you have asked and I have answered.

And no, there is no way to protect yourself from someone jumping in front of your swing. There is no friedlyfire penalties withing the party and guid but in all other cases you should watch whom you attack and who accompanies you.

AS it should be.

[Xor]

There is no difference between knight and peasant in karma loss if you kill one. But in case of a knight you will get his warhorse and armor and that is why it is worth being a bandit - you have asked and I have answered.

And no, there is no way to protect yourself from someone jumping in front of your swing. There is no friedlyfire penalties withing the party and guid but in all other cases you should watch whom you attack and who accompanies you.

AS it should be.

I saw your name in the suggestion section and came to see the famous -1. What a letdown!


I think an option for permadeath like described in the OP is interesting. So i'm not against it since it will be optional. Until I play and understand the 'grind' of the game, i won't really be able to make a good judgement on this though.

[Protunia]

There is no difference between knight and peasant in karma loss if you kill one. But in case of a knight you will get his warhorse and armor and that is why it is worth being a bandit - you have asked and I have answered.

And no, there is no way to protect yourself from someone jumping in front of your swing. There is no friedlyfire penalties withing the party and guid but in all other cases you should watch whom you attack and who accompanies you.

AS it should be.

I saw your name in the suggestion section and came to see the famous -1. What a letdown!


I think an option for permadeath like described in the OP is interesting. So i'm not against it since it will be optional. Until I play and understand the 'grind' of the game, i won't really be able to make a good judgement on this though.

Perma death is fun to a degree...I have been there done that. The sucky part is where you lag out and die....After a few times of that it loses its appeal for me.

Although it does bring a sense of intensity, paranoia, and thrill to a game that can rarely be matched.

[CrypticKiller]

Perma death is a problem. People will quit the game and I'll tell you why. Latency is not always 100%, packet loss does occur. To spend countless hours progressing, only to die due to a connection or server issue is crippling. This happened to me in Diablo 3 hardcore mode. I was level 56 and experienced some really glitchy lag. I died. I never played Diablo 3 again. I think stat loss based on your alignment is more than sufficient.

[Proximo]

All the information about the alignment system is on these forums Legion I would suggest doing your research before entering an argument in ignorance.

As for perma death, you all seem to be missing the fact that you own land in this game. If your character dies completely why would you keep your house or farm or castle even? You want perma death so you have to restart from scratch which would mean running back as a fresh spawn from the starter town.

A characters skills may not take long to raise but a town or city will surely be a continuous affair. Perma death doesn't fit into this sort of game without making it extremely tedious.

[CrypticKiller]

All the information about the alignment system is on these forums Legion I would suggest doing your research before entering an argument in ignorance.

As for perma death, you all seem to be missing the fact that you own land in this game. If your character dies completely why would you keep your house or farm or castle even? You want perma death so you have to restart from scratch which would mean running back as a fresh spawn from the starter town.

A characters skills may not take long to raise but a town or city will surely be a continuous affair. Perma death doesn't fit into this sort of game without making it extremely tedious.

Well said. Perma death would completely contradict the continuous battle for land and holdings. I like the element of losing some skills/stats upon death. Starting over however would become more of an annoyance than a challenge. Guilds work hard to build their cities - in a 12 hour battle for a holding it'd be pretty boring and lame if you were to die and that's it - you're out of the battle.

[Seppuku]

All the information about the alignment system is on these forums Legion I would suggest doing your research before entering an argument in ignorance.

As for perma death, you all seem to be missing the fact that you own land in this game. If your character dies completely why would you keep your house or farm or castle even? You want perma death so you have to restart from scratch which would mean running back as a fresh spawn from the starter town.

A characters skills may not take long to raise but a town or city will surely be a continuous affair. Perma death doesn't fit into this sort of game without making it extremely tedious.

The only ignorance I am seeing is your post. I am merely asking questions about a mechanic that I feel may have been overlooked. The roaving band of nude players who will act as human shields for their friends making you a criminal if you try to kill any PVE content with them around, or if you even try to fight back against someone who hit you. It's a terrible system, and it needs failsafes to prevent this from becoming Mortal Online 2.

After talking to my glorious leader my fears about this system have been slightly alleviated. I still think that a line in the sand between good and evil in these games is a bad concept. Some people deserve to be killed, and in my opinion a crime should have to be witnessed to be a crime. I hope that the systems they have in place for LiF are sufficient to hold back the naked horde of blue meatshields and neckbeards who give us gentlemen bandits a bad reputation. I look forward to towing the line and lining my pockets.

[DarkNeuron]

All the information about the alignment system is on these forums Legion I would suggest doing your research before entering an argument in ignorance.

As for perma death, you all seem to be missing the fact that you own land in this game. If your character dies completely why would you keep your house or farm or castle even? You want perma death so you have to restart from scratch which would mean running back as a fresh spawn from the starter town.

A characters skills may not take long to raise but a town or city will surely be a continuous affair. Perma death doesn't fit into this sort of game without making it extremely tedious.

The only ignorance I am seeing is your post. I am merely asking questions about a mechanic that I feel may have been overlooked. The roaving band of nude players who will act as human shields for their friends making you a criminal if you try to kill any PVE content with them around, or if you even try to fight back against someone who hit you. It's a terrible system, and it needs failsafes to prevent this from becoming Mortal Online 2.

After talking to my glorious leader my fears about this system have been slightly alleviated. I still think that a line in the sand between good and evil in these games is a bad concept. Some people deserve to be killed, and in my opinion a crime should have to be witnessed to be a crime. I hope that the systems they have in place for LiF are sufficient to hold back the naked horde of blue meatshields and neckbeards who give us gentlemen bandits a bad reputation. I look forward to towing the line and lining my pockets.

It is a good point that we shouldn't overlook: What is to stop a bunch of naked players running around trying to get hit (in a war)? Max grief mode engaged...

However, witnessing a crime for it to be a crime is a bland idea. I'd rather a solution targeted against the aforementioned grief-method was found.

[Telakh]

...
Some people deserve to be killed, and in my opinion a crime should have to be witnessed to be a crime. I hope that the systems they have in place for LiF are sufficient to hold back the naked horde of blue meatshields and neckbeards who give us gentlemen bandits a bad reputation. I look forward to towing the line and lining my pockets.

You are overestimating the problem. There will be nearly no PvE so it is quite hard to imagine a situation where you will need to swing your blade with some unknown neutrals around(and expect them to jump on it). More that that, free-to-attack system will make most playes to travel in groups and avoid encounters.
Would you approach a random man while crossing the Sherwood?

Besides, we Do have a whitness system. You can mark criminal and attack any person who is trespassing, even not on your claim, otherwise he will stay blue if noone shouts "A trespasser!"

[Sting5]

All the information about the alignment system is on these forums Legion I would suggest doing your research before entering an argument in ignorance.

As for perma death, you all seem to be missing the fact that you own land in this game. If your character dies completely why would you keep your house or farm or castle even? You want perma death so you have to restart from scratch which would mean running back as a fresh spawn from the starter town.

A characters skills may not take long to raise but a town or city will surely be a continuous affair. Perma death doesn't fit into this sort of game without making it extremely tedious.

Now that's a discussion I wanna see

[Seppuku]

...
Some people deserve to be killed, and in my opinion a crime should have to be witnessed to be a crime. I hope that the systems they have in place for LiF are sufficient to hold back the naked horde of blue meatshields and neckbeards who give us gentlemen bandits a bad reputation. I look forward to towing the line and lining my pockets.

You are overestimating the problem. There will be nearly no PvE so it is quite hard to imagine a situation where you will need to swing your blade with some unknown neutrals around(and expect them to jump on it). More that that, free-to-attack system will make most playes to travel in groups and avoid encounters.
Would you approach a random man while crossing the Sherwood?

Besides, we Do have a whitness system. You can mark criminal and attack any person who is trespassing, even not on your claim, otherwise he will stay blue if noone shouts "A trespasser!"

It seems everything has been addressed except for what will happen when groups of naked blue players run around acting as shields during a war? My guild leader said that you will have to actively gank people to actually kill them so hopefully we will be able to KO these little pests instead of having to kill them.

[Telakh]

When a war comes, in first you will be able to kill any memebers of the opponent guilds with no karma penalties anywhere except thecapital city I assume.
In second, noone can enter to your guild's city territory. If they enter guild's outer territory, you can always mark them as trespassers.
If there is a siedge or battle announced, noone can enter it except for rivals, so there is no problem with blues either.
The only way you can engage them may be a raid, if you are caught outside your guild or personal claim but that is your problem then.
Besides, killing or knocking a person will cost you around 7-15 karma points and that is equal to 1-2 weeks of gameplay. That is not a big deal so you can always knock down some abusing character or a spy.

[Seppuku]

When a war comes, in first you will be able to kill any memebers of the opponent guilds with no karma penalties anywhere except thecapital city I assume.
In second, noone can enter to your guild's city territory. If they enter guild's outer territory, you can always mark them as trespassers.
If there is a siedge or battle announced, noone can enter it except for rivals, so there is no problem with blues either.
The only way you can engage them may be a raid, if you are caught outside your guild or personal claim but that is your problem then.
Besides, killing or knocking a person will cost you around 7-15 karma points and that is equal to 1-2 weeks of gameplay. That is not a big deal so you can always knock down some abusing character or a spy.

Thank you. That sounds like a sensible system to deter griefers.

[Proximo]

I'm not sure if 100% of Telahk's info is correct especially concerning how many points exactly you lose and gain for alignment but he certainly has the idea.

From what I have gleaned the alignment system has many layers attached to it.

1. You take a small alignment hit for each hit on an unflagged player.

2. You can knock a player out and loot them for a much smaller alignment hit then actually killing them.

3. A player can yield before death in which you get some sort of loot ability and if you decide to strike them down you get a bigger alignment hit.

4. You gain alignment by praying daily.

5. I've heard the alignment scale is -1000 to 1000 but if -50 is perma murderer I would think -100 to 100 is the standard.

6. War declared means no alignment hit for kills.

7. Claimed area, clan or personal has the trespassing feature which will flag a player.

8. Total clan areas are wide to control taxing and who settles on it which I'm sure translates into where it counts as trespassing.

9. Battles are instanced but sieges were not planned to be instanced but I think the trespassing system would fix randoms getting in the way.

10. Clan claims cannot be damaged until officially sieged but personal claims can be.

11. A clan has to win a certain amount of official open battles before being able to siege the enemies monument. The monument is where the claim originates from.

12. The only restriction against players entering a claim is if you have walls and shut the gate. So even if there flagged they could steal your stuff.

13. You lose skill points on death. The amount is based off alignment.

14. You lose alignment on death until it balances back to zero.

This is all I can remember reading about, some of which could have been early concept and is going to be changed.

There are not many situations where a neutral could get you to flag on him when you don't want to. If your out in the world not looking for a fight you will be harvesting something. If the player is going to attack you then he will be flagging in which case you may have to take 1 hit blocked or not (I would recommend carrying a shield and club/mace). If you have to strike first to survive then knock him out or wound his leg and run. This game has an extensive wounding system.

Bobik gave an example if a pker is mounted. A guy on a horse will no doubt have increased damage because of his momentum so you will not want to take that 1 hit to get him flagged. This goes both ways as you could pike him as he charges for high amounts of damage possibly owning his horse. 1 strong hit could decide if he will keep attacking you or run away.

[Seppuku]

I guess we will have to see what sort of penalty killing a horse has. I hope that running into people with your horse flags the player as well.

[Sting5]

It seems everything has been addressed except for what will happen when groups of naked blue players run around acting as shields during a war? My guild leader said that you will have to actively gank people to actually kill them so hopefully we will be able to KO these little pests instead of having to kill them.

Yes, in LiF You will have soft health and hard health: soft health will represent Your consciousness, when it reaches zero, You will be knocked out.

I don't really think that running naked around would be much of a fun, because You will be easily disabled by simple knock outs. And while it will trigger the flagging system and make You aggressor, what would a naked guy do to You with armor? I feel more frustrated by possibilities of highly skilled, advanced players jumping in front of me and catching my arrows/strikes while I hunt (let's say), so they could kill me without penalty and loot my body afterwards. This is more an issue to me than a bunch of naked guys.

[Seppuku]

It seems everything has been addressed except for what will happen when groups of naked blue players run around acting as shields during a war? My guild leader said that you will have to actively gank people to actually kill them so hopefully we will be able to KO these little pests instead of having to kill them.

Yes, in LiF You will have soft health and hard health: soft health will represent Your consciousness, when it reaches zero, You will be knocked out.

I don't really think that running naked around would be much of a fun, because You will be easily disabled by simple knock outs. And while it will trigger the flagging system and make You aggressor, what would a naked guy do to You with armor? I feel more frustrated by possibilities of highly skilled, advanced players jumping in front of me and catching my arrows/strikes while I hunt (let's say), so they could kill me without penalty and loot my body afterwards. This is more an issue to me than a bunch of naked guys.

The problem will be high level players in armor with naked lackeys who act as human shields for them. When you try to fight back they leap in front of you causing you to take alignment hits, and to shield their comrade from your attacks.