Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Camil199197]

Yesterday I tested all weapons (except pikes) and want to show you the result of my test. On the end of the post i will rank only the good weapons and will tell the reason.

- I used weapon quality 80 (realistc quality in MMO)
- The target was a naked man in warstance (hittet the hands) damage modifier 1.00
- thrust attacks with 7 speed modifier while running on the standing targed
- swing attacks from the right and left side and took hightest hit
- [-] means doesnt testet because of time waste
- speed modifier is the attack speed of the weapons
- !!Consider, this is only the raw damage without any buffs and armors. Every armor has different ressistance and will effect the result strongly!!

i will color the weapon damage typ by this
-piercing
-slash
-chopping
-blunt
-speed modifier from swing Attack

[2H Weapons] [thrust Attack] [swing Attack] [speed modifier]

Claymore 27 54 33
Zweihaender 20 59 30
Flamberg 20 56 26
Estoc 31 27 37

Broad axe - 53 35
Bardiche - 48 39

Maul - 62 27
Sledge hammer - 52 27


[Spear and Polearm] [thrust Attack] [swing Attack] [speed modifier]

Bec de corbin 26 40 30
Awl pike 40 -
Boar spear 39 -
Spear 36 -
War scythe 13 39

Pollaxe 27 48 40
Partisan 31 51 46
Glaive 20 54 33
Guisarme 30 34 32


[1H Weapons] [thrust Attack] [swing Attack] [speed modifier]

Gross messer 14 48 49
Nordic sword 17 34 41
Light sabre 10 39 54
Scimitar 9 39 41
Falchion 8 39 38

Nordic axe 9 27 37
Battle axe - 31 28
War axe - 29 26

Morning star - 39 29
War pick - 34 39
Flanged mace - 28 41
Cudgel - 27


[1,5 Weapons with Shield] [thrust Attack] [swing Attack] [speed modifier]

Big falchion 13 56 45
Bastard sword 26 54 54
Knight sword 17 44 49

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ranking of the weapons
strengthen
weaknesses
hybrid= easy to use with other builds or to combine

cost = crafting costs
high range > good range
hitbox = facehugging not possible
slash damage = good against light equiped
piercing damage = very hard to mitigate
chopping damage = hard to mitigate
weight = strength requirement, constitution, broken bones does/does not effect
fracture = chance to break bones
!..! = very strong
!!...!! = overpowered

G = God tier
S+ = completly broken
S = broken
A+ = very strong
A = strong
F = Trash


S+ Boarspear (with shield) =!cavalary!, cost, !high range!, !hitbox!, !piercing damage!, weight, !attack speed!, !!thrusting attacks can not be parried!!(90), shields, cavalary

S+ Boarspear only = !cavalary!, polearms, cost, !high range!, !hitbox!, !piercing damage!, weight, !attack speed!, !!thrusting attacks can not be parried!! (90), Partisan can be equipped, shields,archer


S Awl pike = same as Boarspear (worse hitbox)

S Spear = same as boar spear but fewer damage (worse hitbox)

S Gross messer (with shield)= cavalary, poison, cost, !high range!(same as Broad axe), !hitbox!, thrust damage, !!slash damage!! (like a 2H weapon), weight, !!attack speed!!, scale armor , cavalary

S Gross messer only = cavalary, poison,cost, !high range!(same as Broad axe), !hitbox!, thrust damage, !!slash damage!! (like a 2H weapon), weight, !!attack speed!!, combo, scale armor , cavalary, archer


A+ War pick (with shield) = cost, good range, !piercing damage!, weight, attack speed, scale armor, cavalary

A+ Bastard sword (with shield) = cavalary, cost, high range, hitbox, !slash damage!, weight, attack speed, cavalary build, chain armor, cavalary

A+ Big falchion (with shield) = cavalary, cost, high range, hitbox, !slash damage!, weight, attack speed, cavalary build, chain armor, cavalary

A+ Bardiche = high range, !chopping damage!, war cries build, plate armor, cavalary, archer, weight


A Broad axe = high range, !chopping damage!, war cries build, plate armor, cost, cavalary, archer, weight

A Claymore = cost, high range, slash damage, war cries build, plate armor ,cavlary, archer, weight

A Zweihaender = same as Claymore

A Glaive = cost, cavalary counter, high range, slash damage,archer, piercing damage,weight

A Partisan = cost, cavalary counter, high range, piercing and slash damage,archer, weight

A Pollaxe = cost, cavalary counter, high range, chopping damage, archer, weight

A Bec de corbin = cost, high range, !piercing damage!, attack speed, !!thrust can not be blocked!!, cavalary, archer

B Estoc

F = Morning star
F = War scythe
F = Nordic sword
F = Nordic axe
F = Battle axe
F = War axe
F = Flanged mace
F = Cudgel
F = Flamberg
F = Maul
F = Sledge hammer
F = Scimitar
F = Falchion
F = Knight sword

[Sharana]

Nice testing, thanks

[Toren]

God it pains me to see how useless the knight sword is (and the bastard to a lesser degree) especially when you consider it is as slow as the two handers. Unless you use it with a shield of course, then it gets faster and does more damage.

[Optimizer]

100% agree with this.
Ive done much testing of different builds, both meta classes and not, straight up testing like this, group fights, arena fights, field battles duels.
Ive tried all the weapons just to see what got stronger and what got weaker. My results are congruent with this test and analysis. This all goes very expectedly when paired up with armour, both against and with.

Gross messer and Spears in general need to be fixed. Gross just does way too much damage. Litterally the same as 2handed swords twice the size and weight(or more), with 2 arms behind them. The Nordic and the Light Sabre are pretty decent for their damage, but the other two are under-powered.
Spears need to have that ability at 90 removed! Period. Personally i think they are also maybe a little fast or a little too strong. One or the other not both, atleast when used with a shield. Think about it: you went from 2 handed to 1 handed, and you retained your power? Not likely.


I would also put forth a suggestion that the poleaxe moves to the 2handed axes catagory, and that pounce come back to polearm users.

Otherwise i like the effort and ideas, but sometimes they just dont make sense in practice. This is my input, and opinions. Many others share it.

[Nothing_Personal]

Good info, thanks for all the effort that went in to this

[Hallegra]

Great effort! Very methodical. However, I'm worried that the devteam won't consider any of your results until field battles are implemented as that is apparently what they are planning to use to balance combat.

Was your skill the same for each weapon? What was it?

[Jownz]

Great info! Thanks.

[Camil199197]

Updated

-some tweaks
-included costs

---------------------

The reason why Gross Messer is OP are the very high speed bonus hits. The speed bonus increase the damage vigorous and makes the combo faster.

The speed bonus of other 1H swords are around 35 and the Gross Messer is the only one with 51.

[Bashnumber1]

Yeah i really dont know why the knight sword is this weak, since u even have to use a back slot to wear it, it should at least do as much damage as a nordic sword. Maybe they already had this in mind, but since the weapon speed bonus is lower with the 1,5handed weapons you cant do the same damage.

[Artoria Pendragon]

Gross Messer is toooooooooooooo OP that even break the balance, everyone use it instead of anyother weapons.

and knight sword are even worse than the shovel..

[Gimlikohne]

And the grossmesser is still too strong

[Camil199197]

Updated

- added speed modifier
- tweaked damage from weapons
- adjusted the tierlist

[Camil199197]

My tier list istn accurate anymore, because i found out some pretty interesting things. I will update it later and tell you guys (2 Month)

[Hodo]

My tier list istn accurate anymore, because i found out some pretty interesting things. I will update it later and tell you guys (2 Month)

So I have questions on the speed modifier. Is the higher the number the faster or slower?

[Camil199197]

So I have questions on the speed modifier. Is the higher the number the faster or slower?

We must at first difference the two attack types to understand the combat system.

At first there is "thrust" attack. The speed modifier depends on movement speed. You will get 1 speed modifier if you stay still and 7-8 speed modifier while sprinting, If the target stays idle. If both attacker runs into each other, than the speed modifier will add two times 7 and as result we get a speed modifier of 14. (not on streets)

The damage multiple by thrust attacks are very strong and is weapon depended. The most damage multiple effect receives boar spear and makes that weapon very strong. (even OP)

Secondly we have the "swing "attack type. The calcultion is different here. The speed modifier depends on weapon attack speed and body angle movement. You will strike highest hits with the tip of the weapon and sharp body rotation while attacking. With longer weapons you will achieve higher speed modifier by rotating with your body than short weapons.

Its again depended on weapons damage multiple by speed modifier. A 2H axe hits harder than a 1H sword.

I hope i could help you

[Hodo]

It really didnt...
I was just asking what the speed numbers in the comparison meant.

Like the Light Sabre has a speed of 54. Is that faster than a Norse Axe with a speed of 39?

[Rikkarth]

Thanks for your post. Really good work.

[Camil199197]

It really didnt...
I was just asking what the speed numbers in the comparison meant.

Like the Light Sabre has a speed of 54. Is that faster than a Norse Axe with a speed of 39?

Usually but not always, because some weapons have different swing animations. Some weapons attack at 1/2 swing angle animation fast and the other 1/2 swing angle animation slower.

Yes in case of Ligh Sabre vs Nordic Axe is the Light Sabre faster.

[Zohann]

It really didnt...
I was just asking what the speed numbers in the comparison meant.

Like the Light Sabre has a speed of 54. Is that faster than a Norse Axe with a speed of 39?

Speed modifier of the damage does not reflect the speed pf the weapon. You can have a 0 speed modifier with sabre and 30 with broadaxe, though sabre is faster by default.

Speed modifier reflects the bonus to the weapon damage, which is calculated with a proporion of your character physic movement speed, as well as rotating your character model, while swinging. For example, when the lance 10000+dmg bug was still in the game, it happened because the speed modifier cap was infinite, so people were using either a macro or just spam-rotating their character in order to get 500 damage from lance. That also was possible with any weapon, including 2-hand swords and spears and etc.

You also should notice, that right now rotating a character has a momentum. Previously there was no momentum at all, and no speed modifier cap, so, dealing 500 damage with a lance or 100 by default with 2-sword to the plate armor was an easy thing.

[Grimmblut]

My attempt at explaining the speed modifier:

"speed modifier" does NOT mean how much time goes by from the moment you click on the attack button until the moment the weapon hits the target.

"speed modifier" is a measurement of how fast the damaging part of the weapon moved towards the target when it hit and how fast the target moved towards that damaging part at the moment of impact.

Examples:

1)
Player A and B stand still. Player A uses a Great Axe while player B uses a Gross Messer. Both click the attack button at the same time. The Gross Messer hits first, then a moment later, the Great Axe hits, since the Great Axe is the slower weapon. Both attacks have a speed modifier of 0.

2)
Player B stands still. Player A runs in a straight line so that he will pass closely to player B. While passing player B, player A hits Player B with a swinging attack. The speed modifier of that attack is 7 (or maybe another positive value bigger than 0).

Here comes the catch: Would player B in example 2) have made a swinging attack aswell (while standing still) on the running player A, then that attack would have had a positive speed modifier, too, since player A is moving towards the damaging part of player B's weapon.

To keep it simple: A high speed modifier is good. The speed modifier is not a fixed value of a weapon but rather a variable that is affected by the relative speed of the weapon's damaging part and the target towards each other. The speed modifier has nothing to do with how quickly a weapon can attack.

[Hodo]

My attempt at explaining the speed modifier:

"speed modifier" does NOT mean how much time goes by from the moment you click on the attack button until the moment the weapon hits the target.

"speed modifier" is a measurement of how fast the damaging part of the weapon moved towards the target when it hit and how fast the target moved towards that damaging part at the moment of impact.

Examples:

1)
Player A and B stand still. Player A uses a Great Axe while player B uses a Gross Messer. Both click the attack button at the same time. The Gross Messer hits first, then a moment later, the Great Axe hits, since the Great Axe is the slower weapon. Both attacks have a speed modifier of 0.

2)
Player B stands still. Player A runs in a straight line so that he will pass closely to player B. While passing player B, player A hits Player B with a swinging attack. The speed modifier of that attack is 7 (or maybe another positive value bigger than 0).

Here comes the catch: Would player B in example 2) have made a swinging attack aswell (while standing still) on the running player A, then that attack would have had a positive speed modifier, too, since player A is moving towards the damaging part of player B's weapon.

To keep it simple: A high speed modifier is good. The speed modifier is not a fixed value of a weapon but rather a variable that is affected by the relative speed of the weapon's damaging part and the target towards each other. The speed modifier has nothing to do with how quickly a weapon can attack.

Ok that makes sense. So like real life in some ways.
Having done HEMA/ARMA and in the SCA, I can see how that works. I can also see some flaws in the system but they are more from a human body physics standpoint. But ultimately they are minor things.

[Sammy_spam]

Appreciate all the work that went into this, needs some balancing to be done on a few of these to make them even worth considering.

[DemonianAzeroth]

Great testing! I have been meaning to do this.

[NinjaWeeh]

Is this post still updated with Lif MMO ?

[Hodo]

Is this post still updated with Lif MMO ?

Not really.

Half of the weapons got buffed or nerfed since this list. And all you have to do to see what the weapon does damage wise is just make one now.

Bows, crossbows and other ranged weapons wont show you their damage because it is dependent on a couple of factors.

1- Quality of ammunition
2- Target relative motion (closing or moving away)
3- length of draw before fire.

[Mingi.kim]

Great information but it is outdated now. Cab we please have updated information? Any new updated post I missed??

[Valverrin]

Bump. Is there any updated information on weapons? Would be great if someone experienced made at least few comments on current weapon balance. Like is boar spear still op, how’s gross messer, are two handed weapons any good now etc.

Also I have additional question. Read somewhere that Having STRx2 of STR required to wield a weapon is really useful. Like two handed weapons then consume less stamina, swing faster etc. Is this statement correct now? If yes, does it work similar for both 1h, 2h and Spears? If no, then is minimum STR required for your main weapon is all you need?

Please, feel free to share your thoughts on the subject even if you don’t know the answers. Thanks in advance.

[Hodo]

All of the weapons stats are now in game... just make them and look.

The messier is still a very powerful sword. But like all weapons there are pros and cons. And some of them are more depending on the users preference than the weapon itself.

Like I like the war axe over the nordic axe... but others like the nordic axe.

[Suggett66]

And how exactly is the morning star trash? Tower shield and morningstar is a stunning combo

[Peegee77]

Bows, crossbows and other ranged weapons wont show you their damage because it is dependent on a couple of factors.

...
3- length of draw before fire.

With sling, throwing knife and simple bow I am seeing no difference at all in damage as a result of draw time. The range is greater if you draw for longer bur does exactly the same damage. This seems crazy, because the reason that it travels further is the extra velocity, which should also result in more damage (range being equal)> Intended or bug?