What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

General discussion about Life is Feudal MMO and Life is Feudal: Your Own, The main section and backbone of the forums.

Kybern
True Believer
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jun 2015, 12:51

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Kybern » 08 Aug 2015, 16:15

Maegfaer wrote:I have a few questions:

I read War cries are overpowered, should they perhaps be removed alltogether? Or is an increase in their cooldown and stamina cost sufficient? Is it OK if War cries is an independent Skill?

Is Demolition overpowered? Should it be limited by putting it far behind in a chain, or is it OK as an independent Skill?

What are your thoughts on removal of Equipment Maintenance, moving the maintenance abilities to Forging/Smithing, recovering projectiles to Bows mastery or Throwing weaponry, poisoning of 1H blades and setting alight a weapon with Naphta to Alchemy?

What are your thoughts on renaming Demolition to Siege and removing Combat Preperation? Then moving tent abilities of Combat preperation to Sieges, Arrowstand ability to Bows mastery, Pike wall ability to Spear mastery, Pavise shield ability to Crossbow mastery?



This is my current concept:

Warhorse line
Two-handed line
Militia Service -> Onehanded line (including shield)
Throwing -> Archery -> Crossbows
Unit and Formation -> Drill
Armour, Siege, Battle Survival, Unarmed, Warcries(?)


War Cries:
The only really overpowered War Cry is the "Coward" one, which works a lot better than what the description suggests. The chance to trip (and thus be knocked down, just as if shield bashed - but at very long range) is very high, so moving will almost guarantee a trip. The description makes it sound like it was a very rare occurrence.

Demolition:
Demolition is not overpowered at all, in fact it is not really implemented at the moment. The only way to level demolition ATM is with the treb, but it is not needed because you can use the treb at 0 (and not 90 as the description says, which makes sense since it is the only way to level it in the first place).

Equipment Maintenance:
I see no reason to remove Equipment Maintenance, the abilities it confers make sense together. The repairing of weapons and armors comes at the cost of maximum durability, so it is very different from Forging.

Combat Preparation:
I agree that the Combat Preparation skill is superfluous. Even though it is entirely unimplemented, all the abilities it confers in the descriptions are better placed in different skills (or already there):

- Placing Tents should be part of Warfare Engineering, since it is the skill used to craft them.

- Arrowstands should be part of Archery.

- Pike Walls is already part of Spear Mastery.

- Pavise placement is already part of Crossbows.


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 09 Aug 2015, 14:03

Thanks for the feedback, that's informative. I'll keep Equipment Maintenance, also because I realised repairing weapons includes bows and such, which is odd to put under a blacksmith skill.

Let me know what you think about this:

  • Merging Militia Service and Unarmed Combat into 'Self-defense'.
  • Merging Two-handed Axes mastery and Two-handed Blunt mastery into 'Two-handed Hafted Arms mastery'.
  • Merging Axe and Mace mastery and Piercing mastery into 'Hafted Arms mastery'.

Which results in the following two melee weapon chains:

Self-defense -> Hafted Arms mastery -> Shield mastery -> Blades mastery
Spear mastery -> Two-handed Hafted Arms mastery -> Two-handed Blade mastery -> Poleaxe mastery


Weapons/armour stats and scarcity/costs will be adjusted to make deep investment in these skill line viable.
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 09 Aug 2015, 15:53

The above plans result in the following:

Image

I'm still considering switching Two-handed Blades and Poleaxes. But I'm not sure, is the higher reach of a poleaxe superior to the larger blade of a twohanded sword or the other way around?
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image


EpicBlade
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 05:08

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by EpicBlade » 09 Aug 2015, 23:19

Maegfaer wrote:The above plans result in the following:

Image

I'm still considering switching Two-handed Blades and Poleaxes. But I'm not sure, is the higher reach of a poleaxe superior to the larger blade of a twohanded sword or the other way around?

Looks good, probably better too keep it how it is currently.
I really like how you just through all the armors into one skill(genius).
Is armor going in order from padded too plate or are you just going to make it so it's like it is currently(ingame), but only difference is they are all combined?
Maybe archery should be after crossbows, just to make it so you got to invest more to be an archer.
Last question whats your plans on balancing war cries?
I'm really liking this a lot better then it is currently(ingame), seems great.


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 09 Aug 2015, 23:39

EpicBlade wrote:Is armor going in order from padded too plate or are you just going to make it so it's like it is currently(ingame), but only difference is they are all combined?


The latter I think. I don't see a real benefit to putting heavier armours higher in the skill.

EpicBlade wrote:Maybe archery should be after crossbows, just to make it so you got to invest more to be an archer.


Good argument, one I considered myself as well. But at the same time, bows should and will be a lot easier to craft than crossbows. So requiring crossbow training before you can use a bow while you get a bow way earlier in the game than a crossbow is very conflicting.

Then again, I could make crossbow mastery an independent skill. But then the investment will be so low almost everyone will use one.

I considered all of that and then figured the current setup is the best compromise, in my opinion at least. Feel free to give additional arguments though.

EpicBlade wrote:Last question whats your plans on balancing war cries?


I'm considering removing the skill itself and spreading the individual war cry abilities over other combat skills. I'm just not sure yet if the ability's power then scales with the level of it's new skill, or still scales with the War cries skill level. I hope the latter, because then it will always be zero and the abilties may actually be somewhat balanced.

Alternatively, I'll either only remove the "Coward" cry, or remove the skill as well as the abilities.
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image

User avatar
Custodian
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 655
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 14:58
Location: Lisbon

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Custodian » 09 Aug 2015, 23:54

Maegfaer wrote:You can't control the skill positions in the GUI, they are dependent on their parent.

Client-side modification and you able to alter skills gui layout. A bit of work required to make it automatic and based on skill_types config.
Spoiler


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 10 Aug 2015, 07:14

Custodian wrote:Client-side modification and you able to alter skills gui layout. A bit of work required to make it automatic and based on skill_types config.
Spoiler


Very cool, would you mind sharing how you did that? I tried messing around in .gui .cs files related to the skill book, but didn't manage this. I'm not that familiar with Torquescript.
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image

User avatar
Custodian
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 655
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 14:58
Location: Lisbon

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Custodian » 10 Aug 2015, 07:45

Maegfaer wrote:Very cool, would you mind sharing how you did that? I

You was right, gui is embedded into client binary, but it can be overloaded after window opens. i.e. default layout shown for couple of ms, flickers, and then there is desired layout.
I'm working of client side mod, which sould follow skill_types layout.


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 10 Aug 2015, 08:45

Here is my skill_types.xml if you want to test with it.
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image

User avatar
Custodian
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 655
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 14:58
Location: Lisbon

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Custodian » 10 Aug 2015, 13:57

Maegfaer wrote:Here is my skill_types.xml if you want to test with it.

Okay, what we can do here:

You can setup needed group with skill_types.xml.
Parent and child skill should be at same group, or they wount be added to the skillbook page.

I'm following this draw rules:
Each skill without parent will start from the new line.
Each skill who depends on the parent will follow parent in the line.
If skill have 2 (or more) childrens, they will be drawn one by one after parent (need to check this).
Free skills (no parents, no childs) are drawn below all other skills.

If child is in another group, it will start at first column (like if it does not have parent), but since such are not populated, no images are drawn (note 3rd screenshot).

It is possible to do 6 skills per row for free skills(if margin is lowered), see screenshots below.

Skillbook layout generated based on skill_types attached
Spoiler
Last edited by Custodian on 10 Aug 2015, 14:19, edited 3 times in total.


Hoshiqua
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1057
Joined: 18 Jan 2014, 14:48

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Hoshiqua » 10 Aug 2015, 13:57

Wait, if you can modify skill interface..

That means you can remove skill lines and have an actual good GUI :D

*Runs out of the thread*

About the crossbows.. Why the hell not ? :D
Crossbows were used for that very reason : it was easy to learn, even for the peasants. But to avoid making it the simplest weapon to learn, and still an all-round powerful one, you should make very heavy armors like full plate and heavy scale very very strong against it

User avatar
Custodian
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 655
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 14:58
Location: Lisbon

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Custodian » 10 Aug 2015, 14:44

So, Maegfaer, you can create desired skill configuration with parents/childs relations and we will make a window for it.
If icons cannot be fitted into window, we can stretch/redraw window 8-)

How to test layout.
Spoiler


I'll make this mod compatible and will add it to BasilMod::Pack, so skill configuration could be downloaded from server to updated on the client side automatically. :beer:


Maegfaer
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 26 Sep 2014, 08:01

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Maegfaer » 10 Aug 2015, 15:19

That's magnificent man!

I wonder if you can also move the used/max skillpoints display to be at the top of the skill book rather than at the bottom? Because then we can add even more rows. It's easy to increase the dimensions of the skill book window (data\presets\HUD\First\SkillsWindow.obj) and it's also easy to add a bigger background (the actual book).

If moving that display is possible, we could even put all crafting and combat skills in the same group. Then players will have to divide points between crafting and combat. I'd be very interested to run an experiment to see how that turns out in practice.
Pioneer LiF:YO modder
Author of Life is Balanced
My Modding Guide

Image

User avatar
Custodian
Mod Developer
 
Posts: 655
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 14:58
Location: Lisbon

Re: What do you think of this Skill reconfig?

Post by Custodian » 10 Aug 2015, 15:27

Maegfaer wrote:That's magnificent man!
I wonder if you can also move the used/max skillpoints display to be at the top of the skill book rather than at the bottom?

As I said earlier, we can add more rows/column (they are dynamic in the mod I shared), alter backround, resize widow, shuffle elements.
More rows can be added, and skill points display can still be placed after last row.

Maegfaer wrote:(data\presets\HUD\First\SkillsWindow.obj)

That's cached settings, they may not be applied(loaded) in some situations.

Return to General Discussion