Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Molsenff]

So, some of the issue that surrounds the lack of RP within the game on Epeland comes from two things: Language Barriers, Lack of Benefit from vassals.

So the language barrier issue will likely never be completely solved by us.

Let's focus on what we can fix. The claim system. Right now, there is absolutely no benefit to becoming a vassal or kingdom. There is no RP opportunity presented here either. So here's my proposal:

Guild claims max out at 60 tile radius and tier 2 monument.
Vassal +1 = 80 tile max radius for Kingdom, 70 for vassal.
Vassal +2 = 90 tile max radius for Kingdom and tier 3 monument. 80 for vassals.
Vassal +3 = 100 tile max radius for Kingdom, 90 for vassals.
Vassal +4 = 120 tile max radius for Kingdom and tier 4 monument. 100 tile radius for vassals and tier 3 monument.
Each vassal after the 4th adds 20 tiles to Kingdom and 10 to vassals.

This gives some meaning behind becoming a vassal and kingdom. As well it can provide an opportunity for RP between the two parties.

Now for options for standings. We need more than the few current ones we have. Right now, if you want to be technical allies you just set it friendly... but if you set it to ally, depending on who sets it first you become a vassal, or get a vassal. Let's change this so that Vassal is a standing on its own.

War declaration should unlock PvP options for both sides, but this should come at a cost to both parties. If war is declared by one side only, the other side should have 72 RL hours to either submit or declare war. If both sides declare war, it unlocks a status similar to JH for the area within each side's claim without the need for totems.
During this, it should be possible for one side to claim victory by fighting their way to the monument and occupy it for 30 RL minutes without dying. If they achieve this, any sacrifices made at this monument provide a "tax" to the victor for 7 RL days. This tax is automatically deposited into the victor's monument.

In the case where only one side declares war, the side that doesn't declare war will be penalized with a "Sieged" modifier that lowers their skill gains. This effect will last for 24 RL hours before the declaring side is awarded a "Victory" and granted a "Victor's Honor" modifier that boosts their skill gains for 24 RL hours. The Losing side will then lose 10 tiles of maximum guild claim size permanently. During the 24 hr siege, it is possible to "Submit" through RP and get the declaration taken off.

There is, admittedly, always room for abuse of any system. However, I believe that this system could allow for a more dynamic RP situation within an RP server while still allowing for both PvE and PvP to occur. Please let me know your thoughts, and adjustments to rewards/time limits can always be worked out for balance.

[Hodo]

Interesting system, but it is complicated.

The current system, which is not completely in game yet, would not work with the system you are suggesting. To many things are tied together which would break if IB worked correctly.

Currently an IB will reduce the size of a claim by (x) number of tiles, eventually reducing the claim tier size. Once it is reduced to tier 1, you can then lay siege to it with a siege totem.

The problem with your system is if I reduce the size of the kingdoms tier, then the vassals are also effected. Which is cool, BUT a lot of additional calculations that the server has to make adjusting claims constantly.

As for the RP language barrier, well, I hate to say this, this is a problem that every nation has had to overcome since the beginning of time. You want to talk to someone who doesnt speak the same tongue as you, well you better find someone who can translate or find a common language you both understand.

Do you think the first Norse raiders spoke the same language as the Brits when they raided England? No.... they found a common tongue, Latin I believe.

[Molsenff]

Well, my system eliminates the need for IB totems entirely. Basically if both sides say "Yeah, let's go to war!" and declare war on each other. Then they will be allowed to run around and seige, attack, etc. On each other's claims as if JH were initiated.

This also removes the need for a global JH, because guilds can go to war with each other and have the same effect.

So there wouldn't be a reduction in claim size from an IB. Even if the IB system were kept in the game it wouldn't affect the size of the vassals' claims. Their maximum claim size is based on the total number of vassals in the kingdom. Same with the Kingdom, it's current claim size vs. it's maximum claim size are different. Consider a Kingdom that forgets to upkeep the monument for a few days, they'll lose tiles quickly with upkeep 0. They will still have a max tile size based on the number of vassals, but their current size will suffer.

[Hodo]

Well, my system eliminates the need for IB totems entirely. Basically if both sides say "Yeah, let's go to war!" and declare war on each other. Then they will be allowed to run around and seige, attack, etc. On each other's claims as if JH were initiated.

This also removes the need for a global JH, because guilds can go to war with each other and have the same effect.

So there wouldn't be a reduction in claim size from an IB. Even if the IB system were kept in the game it wouldn't affect the size of the vassals' claims. Their maximum claim size is based on the total number of vassals in the kingdom. Same with the Kingdom, it's current claim size vs. it's maximum claim size are different. Consider a Kingdom that forgets to upkeep the monument for a few days, they'll lose tiles quickly with upkeep 0. They will still have a max tile size based on the number of vassals, but their current size will suffer.

There is two major issues with this.

1- The servers cant handle real wars being fought on them. They crash if more than 200 people show up on a tile.

2- If someone doesnt want to go to war, then your system is just screwed. You cant FORCE a war on someone who doesnt want it. Which isnt how wars are fought.

Do you think Poland wanted the Mongol hordes to run through their country? Do you think Poland agreed to a war with Germany in the Fall of 1939?

The last issue I see, which is more of a personal problem, is the cost of upkeep for the wars.

It just comes down to who can spam the most upkeep the longest to maintain the war.

[Molsenff]

Well yeah, the servers aren't the greatest. However, optimizations can be made over time to help handle this issue. It's a dual pronged problem of both hardware and software. Currently the game is in beta, so the devs need the software to record basically everything. This slows the game down considerably because each line is calling a function to write its output to a log file, which is why server lag happens during heavy PvP. There are so many calculations happening that all need to be logged for debugging, that the hardware can't handle it. That brings us to the hardware. For a game like this, they need several dedicated, massively scaleable server hubs. Something akin to the Windows Azure system from 10 years ago. That could be some time down the road if they can get the funding, and I hope they do.

Now, for the forced war system. I've handled this with the penalty system for not declaring war or submitting to the aggressor. If one side does not want to fight, they are given two options: Submit to the agressor's demands, or become "Sieged" for a period of RL time. Wherein they have a massive penalty to food quality and skill gain. This timer doesn't continue when a character is logged out (to prevent them from just not playing for a day or two).

In this way, war can be forced on someone without them wanting it. You're beseiging them and getting the benefit from game mechanics to back it up. However they aren't being punished horribly for being a peaceful guild with no desire for war/PvP. A JH would honestly punish non-PvP guilds for being non-PvP because during the JH they'd be destroyed over and over again. So this avoids that by just using in-game penalties on timers.

What cost of upkeep are you talking about? I mentioned upkeep when referring to the guild monument because of the normal upkeep required to maintain a guild claim. If you hit 0, you lose tiles. An IB wouldn't affect the max claim size, just the current claim size, so IBs could still work with my system. However, I feel they're unnecessary in my system because they become redundant with the concept of having both sides allowed to fight each other on each other's claim as if they were in a JH. (So each side can go whack down walls, torch buildings, and generally destroy themselves, but they can't attack a guild that isn't part of their war because the mechanics wouldn't allow it.) Otherwise, there's no cost of upkeep for the war itself. It would be simple: Declare war on enemy guild. Enemy guild declares war on you. The two of you march to each other's castles, fight a bunch, attempt to capture the other's monument for 30 RL minutes without dying, and claim victory. No financial upkeep needed. Eventually someone will win and someone will lose, it's more about being smart, organized, strategic, and skillful than anything else.