Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Peegee77]

Just wait till sieges are in game... oh if you are crying now, just wait till the trebs start blowing through your walls in 2 shots.

You really have totally missed the point, haven't you? Nobody is crying, although I know it is standard forum warrior tactics to accuse others of crying to avoid addressing the real issue. This is not about whether sieging is hard or easy. It is about whether we are playing a serious medieval MMO or something that is a joke.

When the discussion was about settlement sizes you delivered long (and at times quite interesting) lectures about the organisation of feudal society. Realism was important to you. Please try to stay consistent.

[sunleader]

Because then we have nothing but a Big Island where Nomads Fight each other. Because Building a Wall only gives away your Position and doesnt do anything to Defend your Village as a Simple Bark Box will allow the Enemy to Climb onto the Wall and use it against you.

The only way to realy lay siege on your enemy is within a instance server with a very limited time. Thats the gamedesign that makes your argument invalid. There has to be a way to overcome a defence within the given time limit or the whole war/siege design is crap.
As long as terrarforming can be abused to make a claim invulnerable to a siege, it is correct to allow to counter that.

The Problem is not the Time.
Its the Cost.

If a Big Stone Wall which cost a 50 People Village a Week to Build together. Due to gathering Tons and Tons of Ressources and then Spending Hours Building it after an High Level Architect who spend Weeks Grinding his Skills Placed the Slots.

Can be Overcome by 1 Person Spending Half an Hour gathering Bark and then Building Bark Boxes at the Wall.


The Time it takes to Scale that Wall can be super Short for all I care.
The Importand Part is the Cost.


They Should remove the Ability for Sleeping Bags and Bark Boxes etc to be Placed above Ground Level.

If they cant spend the effort to bring in a Proper Siege Equipment that Costs Wood and Iron to make and Requires high lvl Skills to be Build as well as requiring several People to be Carried onto the Enemy Wall.

Then they should Simply make a Temporary Fix.
And just make a Copy of the Bark Box.
Rename it Wall Hike Box.
And make it Cost Iron Fittings and other Materials that are Harder to Gather.
So it can be used like a Bark Box currently. But actually costs something and requires some Effort.




Seriously.
Right now whats the Point of even Building a Wall ?
The only thing you have from it. Is that when a Bandit wants to Raid your Village he will add some Bark Boxes to the Wall and then Shoot Arrows at you from your own Wall.


Thats Complete BS

[GaspodeWD]

Seriously.
Right now whats the Point of even Building a Wall ?
The only thing you have from it. Is that when a Bandit wants to Raid your Village he will add some Bark Boxes to the Wall and then Shoot Arrows at you from your own Wall.
Thats Complete BS

Firstly they would have to have time to make the boxes off claim then walk them to your walls.... if you couldn't defend that you are doing something wrong.

If they do it when you are offline they can't do anything to your claim anyway.

[Hodo]

You really think this is about ego or being bad / good? Go back to MO forums , at least there your stupidity shines like intelligence . What people are PISSED ABOUT is that sieging is not in game yet people are raiding with UNINTENDED raiding mechanics . You really think that devs intended this ? Furthermore you really think this was apart of their plan ? It isn’t , it’s jjst them fucking up and not thinking about balance . When sieging is In I will GLADLY fight off a siege force , but until then do NOT ALLOW exploiters to do this - and it IS and exploit , I don’t care if it’s sanctioned by the shit heads in charge it’s STILL AN EXPLOIT . So again - in case you couldn’t fathom what I’m talking about - raiding IS NOT IN GAME AS AN INTENDED MECHANIC . If the devs want us to continue raiding / getting raided then they need to add Actual mechanics like siege ladders or moveable seige stairs that take primary points to create - otherwise this game will turn into a rust game where the only objective is to raid as many noob bases as possible . I know many of you come from disgusting, poorly balanced game but that does NOT MEAN that we have to make LIF mmo the same way .

Think better devs , create balance in your game and stop accepting exploits as “fair game” because it’s not - it’s an exploit and IMO you shouldn’t be able to auto drop things your carrying when you hit combat mode button when on OTHER PEOPLES CLAIMS . If actual siege mechanics were in game people wouldn’t be using these exploits , if the devs actually thought about balance within claims they would not have allowed us to drop foreign objects onto other people’s claims ( we can’t steal anything or hurt anything on another claim , yet we can litter shit all over their claim ? Ya that sounds balanced) .

Stop thinking with your overinflated ego (players who encourage exploiting) and stop thinking with your lazy ass mind (developers) . Do what’s right and stop the exploiting via enabling siege ladders and seige stairs . Really not that hard for those supposedly in control of their game .

Wow, you really escalated to insults quick. You MUST be a millennial, easily insulted and cries a lot about little things.

There are so many other "exploits" to counter the building of sleeping bag bridges, and bark box ladders.

Let me list the dozen or so ways to get over a wall.
-Standing on a horse. (accurate and plausible)
-Table stacking (actually historically correct too)
-Bench stacking
-Crate stacking
-Barrel stacking
-Log stacking
-Platform (ramps and bridges) *also historically accurate*

And then the counters on this...
-Archers (simple bows or crossbows)... a few of them on your walls and people wont stack for long.

-Trees, no really trees.

-Earthwork fortifications, GOOGLE it.

In this game like in life, you have to sometimes think outside of the "box". While the bark box ladder and the bedroll bridge is cheesy, it is no less part of the game. Dont like them... hit them with torches, 2 or 3 good hits and they go away.

[Killa162]

The same shit was in YO. With trebs and battering rams being your siege. Of course you had siege torches but that wasn't going to take down a gate or wall effectively. I remember on FeudalRealms (LiF:YO server) a group of Chinese of about 10-15, terraformed an amazing base of 3 layers. Almost looked like a Chinese temple from old times in history. They also had a 360 degree moat. We had to use trebs to knock down walls, then to lay bags down to cross the moat during JH. And we still didn't overcome the castle. They had an excellent defense vs a very large 30-50 force. It's all on how you build...

But to be honest, its like Rust base building. If you double stack your walls with a good design, you'll force attacks to use more resources then they want to raid you to get at the loot room. But if your base is shit and has single walls, they can use 4 c4 instead of 10-20+ and not even get past. But if they use 4 and boom at your loot room, then you fucked up.

Same goes for this game, if your design and terraforming blows then you're going to get blown down with it. You need moats, realm claim, guild claims, and so forth to protect layers of your base. If all it takes is bark boxes to get over your walls and sleeping bags over your pit. And that lets them in to everything you own, you fucked up.

It just separates people that know what they're doing with building a base within game mechanics, and to what people think needs to be bare minimum from watching Game of Thrones. UNTIL siege is released, this is the only means to have meaningful JH's. It sucks but that's just how it is.
Once they give options for ladders and such, then sure I'll support you and agree with you that this stuff needs to be disabled somehow to place certain items(bark box, and sleeping bag for this instance) down during JH. Only siege should be allowed to be placed within enemy borders even during JH since no other structures serve a purpose in a siege.

BUT until then, these options need to be left in or the game will die off fast with stale war PvP/ganking. No one will stay around for that till they implement proper siege.

[Hodo]

So let us look at some historical ACTUAL castles, keeps and baileys.



Note it is on a GIANT hill... the walls are WAY higher than it needs to be with one avenue of approach. Good luck getting into that. You can mimic that exact build in game.


Here is another one...
Note the double layer of walls, inner walls being taller and thicker than the outer layer. Also note the moat around the outside, with a VERY clear line of fire in all directions. The inner and outer walls have battlements that allow you to fire down on to the sides of the walls with few if any "dead zones".

Or you can take a note from more modern fort designs..

This is a "star fort", note again how there are no dead zones on any wall. Overlapping fields of fire, and layered defense.

[Hodo]

When the discussion was about settlement sizes you delivered long (and at times quite interesting) lectures about the organisation of feudal society. Realism was important to you. Please try to stay consistent.

I dont like the bark box, or bedroll bridge, but it is unfortunately a game "mechanic" till we get siege ladders and siege towers.

And to be honest, siege ladders would be about as easy to build as a bedroll. 4 branches, simple rope, done...

You can construct platforms if you really wanted. They are easy enough to build and a lot tougher to destroy.

The counter to any bedroll bridge or bark box ladders, is torches, and or flaming arrows.

1 flaming arrow will destroy a bark box. 2 or 3 will destroy a bedroll.

[Rikkarth]

Are you guys talking about the Bridge we've made? I feel so flattered.

Guess you have to blame the game not the player.

[Hodo]

Are you guys talking about the Bridge we've made? I feel so flattered.

Guess you have to blame the game not the player.

LOL I am not even mad at that. The amount of time that had to take is the factor. And if they couldnt defend against it... well that is on them.

Good work there sir.

[Peegee77]

I absolutely hate it, it really kills the immersion for me, but if people say that it's the only way to "bridge the gap" (pun intended) until we get a better solution then I guess we have to live with it.

Can I suggest a possible compromise that would keep people like me happy (or a bit happier) without creating a load of coding work? Just a quick fix?

How about adding Wattle Fence (vertical) and Wattle Fence (horizontal) and allowing them to be placed as objects? Cost of 10 branches, the models are already in game, and they would look a bit like an improvised ladder, fascine, duckboard or whatever.

[Killa162]

Are you guys talking about the Bridge we've made? I feel so flattered.

Guess you have to blame the game not the player.

LOL I love this.

Also I didn't even know it only took 1 flaming arrow for box and 2-3 for bedroll. At that point I'm not even mad about it until they roll in siege update. This argument is such a non-argument now it's crazy. Literally any settled guild should be able to have a bowcrafter make flaming arrows if your herbalist is doing their job as well. I can argue that the same amount of time that the herbalist had to gather herbs for naptha, and the bowcrafter to gather his billets, feathers, iron from claim to make the arrow. Should be the same for someone to run to find a tree, hit gather for bark enough times for a box and make it. If ANY time difference/effort is required its very minimal for a established guild, since your people should always be crafting and working on skills. The mechanics in game to counter said "cheese" is is easy to obtain "siege torch" or slightly skill intensive which at this point of the game, not to mention power hours on top of that, should be a non-issue.

I'm done with this thread. Some admin please lock it for it's a joke. More people need to get informed like I just did about a counter to it. Or learn to build better bases. Literally it's that black and white.

Peegee: Sounds like a compromise I'd make, for "immersion" sake. But then again I don't play this game for RP reasons. I play it because it's fun as a medieval survival open world pvp game. Right now this has more promise then Darkfall: Rise of Agon did, ONLY if it keeps away from totally 100% catering to RP suggestions. I don't mind compromises so you feel immersed while you play, if you want to RP then fine by me. I just don't want game changing PvP overhauls to the game because people can't defend themselves and so forth when the tools are in front of them in-game already.

[Hodo]

I absolutely hate it, it really kills the immersion for me, but if people say that it's the only way to "bridge the gap" (pun intended) until we get a better solution then I guess we have to live with it.

Can I suggest a possible compromise that would keep people like me happy (or a bit happier) without creating a load of coding work? Just a quick fix?

How about adding Wattle Fence (vertical) and Wattle Fence (horizontal) and allowing them to be placed as objects? Cost of 10 branches, the models are already in game, and they would look a bit like an improvised ladder, fascine, duckboard or whatever.

Or the wooden fence would work also.

But these are also options... and one of which actually works now.

Large Platform.

It covers three squares, is mildly cheap to build.

Wooden fence would require a bit of coding on the developers side.

[Gruber]

The Problem is not the Time.
Its the Cost.

If a Big Stone Wall which cost a 50 People Village a Week to Build together. Due to gathering Tons and Tons of Ressources and then Spending Hours Building it after an High Level Architect who spend Weeks Grinding his Skills Placed the Slots.

Sorry but you must be some special kind of stupid.
At the point where siege weapons are added, "raiders" have access to ladders. A ladder will be very cheap in production and will be set up way faster than any bark box ladder.
people in the middle age were not plain stupid, they had a lot of options to overcome small stone walls. A simple ladder, a rope or simply a ladder out of people.

Walls are not save at itself. the thing about walls is that it is much easier to defend standing on the wall than being on the ground. You always have to be able to defend your walls. If you want a save spot where you cant be harmed, play on a rp YO server, simple as that.

Seriously.
Right now whats the Point of even Building a Wall ?
The only thing you have from it. Is that when a Bandit wants to Raid your Village he will add some Bark Boxes to the Wall and then Shoot Arrows at you from your own Wall.

First of all, bandits are not able to raid you, they cant loot in you city claim. If they come over your wall, simply log out.
Second, if you have walls and do not man them to fend of raiders, it is your own stupid decision. It takes a few minutes to overcome your moat (you have non? stupid decision) and to set up a bark box ladder. If you set up your defence right, it takes more than 10 minutes to set it up. A lot of time to get aware of this and simply shoot them down from up your walls. If at any time, bandits get on your own wall without you noticing, you do not deserve to be save.


If you realy want to be save, set up a moat and castle walls.

[Arrakis]

We have just recently released a statement regarding the sleeping bags exploit - topic25124/page30/#p118424

[sunleader]

We have just recently released a statement regarding the sleeping bags exploit - topic25124/page30/#p118424

THANKS

And lol
Recently

Literally 2 hours ago xD

[Hodo]

We have just recently released a statement regarding the sleeping bags exploit - topic25124/page30/#p118424

So let me get this straight...

A person can not build a platform haul it on their back and set it down to get over a ditch that players built.... because it is on their claim?

Well then... I guess I will just plant 400 oak and maple trees around my claim because they are immune to trebs and siege weapons. And I wont even need walls.

[Nothing_Personal]

You don't need walls just dig a ditch.

Glitch ditch with drying racks on your side, can't bark box over, jump over, etc. Cheap, quick. Why build walls. World will be full of drying rack bases now

[Gruber]

Constructing such improvised pontoons and siege ladders will be allowed during JH until we find time to implement some proper siege ladders.

For some medicore devs that would take a (with ballancing and fixing) at max a month. But here even a grafic design takes month.

So actually my "gameplay" is limited to
- 99% autoclicker afk to max out skills
- 1% pvp while jh

much gameplay, much fun

If you realy spit every pvp play in the face like that, servers will be as populated as YO server. full during JH and empty all the other time.

[Hodo]

Constructing such improvised pontoons and siege ladders will be allowed during JH until we find time to implement some proper siege ladders.

For some medicore devs that would take a (with ballancing and fixing) at max a month. But here even a grafic design takes month.

So actually my "gameplay" is limited to
- 99% autoclicker afk to max out skills
- 1% pvp while jh

much gameplay, much fun

If you realy spit every pvp play in the face like that, servers will be as populated as YO server. full during JH and empty all the other time.

I agree with you Gruber.

I am not even a hardcore PVPer. I do think that sleeping bags shouldnt be able to be stood on, but everything elsee should be left as is.

If someone takes time to build a platform to get across a gap, or build bark boxes to scale a wall, then they worked for it. If you cant defend your walls then recruit more people, or just join someone else bigger.

[sunleader]

We have just recently released a statement regarding the sleeping bags exploit - topic25124/page30/#p118424

So let me get this straight...

A person can not build a platform haul it on their back and set it down to get over a ditch that players built.... because it is on their claim?

Well then... I guess I will just plant 400 oak and maple trees around my claim because they are immune to trebs and siege weapons. And I wont even need walls.

Not actually true.
Because during JH other Players can do what they want on your Claim.
Including to carry boxes there and just take down a Tree to make a gap :P

[sunleader]

Constructing such improvised pontoons and siege ladders will be allowed during JH until we find time to implement some proper siege ladders.

For some medicore devs that would take a (with ballancing and fixing) at max a month. But here even a grafic design takes month.

So actually my "gameplay" is limited to
- 99% autoclicker afk to max out skills
- 1% pvp while jh

much gameplay, much fun

If you realy spit every pvp play in the face like that, servers will be as populated as YO server. full during JH and empty all the other time.

Well Mate.
In this case they have only a choice between 1 or 2

Either Spit the 95% Players in the Face which want to have a Castle thats actually worth something. And only do proper PvP during War Times when Enemies are also Online.

Or they Spit the 5% Players in the Face which want nothing else but RPK and Rape their way through the World for the entire Day including Raiding Bases in the offhours when 90% of the Guild is not Online.



Hardcore RPKs are an fairly small Niche of Players.
On top its a Niche of Players that tends to frustrate and scare other players out of the Game.
So nobody misses RPKs if they leave.

Not that RPKs would actually do us the Favor of leaving tough.
So no worries either ways.

[Hodo]

Not actually true.
Because during JH other Players can do what they want on your Claim.
Including to carry boxes there and just take down a Tree to make a gap :P

Sorry but the new system is plain and simple.

If people cant defend their walls then they should be scaled over. People dont realize how long it actually takes to stack boxes to get over a wall, how much coordination it takes to do these attacks.

If you sit AFK by yourself behind your palisade walls because you want to live alone, then well be ready to die... a lot.


And Sunleader...

If those guilds cant muster the numbers to protect their walls then they are not worth their weight in salt anyway.

[Lord_Sitruc]

Already said my two cents on this subject.

Good change, wrong time.

Should have waited for this till at least 1 other item to attack walls was implemented. Walled cities are now to safe.

Harassment and economic warfare will be damaged by this greatly.


Perhaps a middle ground where you can still place items like this on claims you are at war with would be best till something meant to be used against walls is implemented.

[sunleader]

Not actually true.
Because during JH other Players can do what they want on your Claim.
Including to carry boxes there and just take down a Tree to make a gap :P

Sorry but the new system is plain and simple.

If people cant defend their walls then they should be scaled over. People dont realize how long it actually takes to stack boxes to get over a wall, how much coordination it takes to do these attacks.

If you sit AFK by yourself behind your palisade walls because you want to live alone, then well be ready to die... a lot.


And Sunleader...

If those guilds cant muster the numbers to protect their walls then they are not worth their weight in salt anyway.

So in Short.
This Game should be Exclusive for Jobless People that can Sit at Home all Week and Play 10 hours a Day ?


Sorry Mate.
But I doubt that there is even a Single Guild in this Game Right now.
That is Defending their Walls 24 Hours a Day. 7 Days a Week.



Scaling Walls while the Owner is Offline should not be Possible.
If you want to Attack a Village it should Require that you actually Attack it.

Not just scale the Walls in the Night while Nobody is Online and then Kill everyone who comes Online.




I played several Games like this.
And let me tell you this.

Players and especially RPKs are ***** they will do whatever they can to **** you.

So let me tell you how Wars in these others Games were Fought.
It was really Simple.
Once you knew what Timezone the Enemy Guild was in Primarily.
You would go to their Keep at roughly 3-4 o Clock in the Morning.
Get over the Walls and Defenses when nobody or maybe 1 or 2 People are Online.
And then during the Day just Massacre them while they are unable to mount any Defense because they get killed as they log in and have no way to Regroup properly. While your leisurely razing their Fortress.


Why ?
Because thats exactly what happens if you allow it.
Why would an RPK Group of Bandits bother actually Attacking a Wall if they can just go at night and climb over it. Then Expect the Defender of that Wall and kill em with Arrows fired from their own Wall when they Log In ????

Why would an RPK Group bother Attacking a Wall during JH when the Defenders are there to Fight them off.
When they can just go outside JH when barely any of the Defenders is Online ?



Sorry.
But I dont need this kind of crappy Offhour Warfare.
If you want to Attack a Village. BE A DAMN MAN and Attack it properly while there is actually Defenders Online to Defend it!!!

[Lord_Sitruc]

This a weird what if scenario, I do not really think anyone would do this. All it takes is one guy to get killed and he tells everyone else not to log in, then what the raiders sit there for hours bored, not looting not producing, not killing? I doubt anyone has the patience for doing that for a significant amount of time.

If they log out themselves, well when they log back in they are pushed off the claim, the devs already fixed that issue. so its not like they can be productive and camp your empty base.

[Nothing_Personal]

Yea I'm not gonna pay $20 a month for a game that I can only play an hour a day.

I don't get the change, YOU ALREADY GAVE THEM AN RP SERVER!

Let them go play on it instead of changing the "PVP" server.

[Hodo]

So in Short.
This Game should be Exclusive for Jobless People that can Sit at Home all Week and Play 10 hours a Day ?

Sorry.
But I dont need this kind of crappy Offhour Warfare.
If you want to Attack a Village. BE A DAMN MAN and Attack it properly while there is actually Defenders Online to Defend it!!!

First of all, there are guilds on the EU server with 600+ players, that are during their "low" times still have around 50-100 people online.

There are guilds on the NA server with nearly 200 people in them, with maybe 20-25 online during the "off peak" times.

If you are stuck with 10-20 people in your clan then you need to consider having allies, or joining a bigger guild.


And what is to say a JH doesnt happen when you arent online anyway. Come back and your claim has been looted of anything that can be carried off. Because they built bark boxes to get over your walls during the JH.

Are you going to come here to the forums and cry about that then? Ask for magical locking mechanisms that keep all of your stuff glued to the ground because you arent there.

[Risky]

If you dont like the sleeping bag bridges... pick them up..

You can always remove a section while someone is standing on it... thus causing them to fall into the water or where ever.

We had our guild leader get stuck in our moat because someone picked up the floor from under him.

We laughed for a while about that one.

Why didnt we all think of that. Have you got any more clever words of wisdom?

[Risky]

I absolutely hate it, it really kills the immersion for me, but if people say that it's the only way to "bridge the gap" (pun intended) until we get a better solution then I guess we have to live with it.

Can I suggest a possible compromise that would keep people like me happy (or a bit happier) without creating a load of coding work? Just a quick fix?

How about adding Wattle Fence (vertical) and Wattle Fence (horizontal) and allowing them to be placed as objects? Cost of 10 branches, the models are already in game, and they would look a bit like an improvised ladder, fascine, duckboard or whatever.

Or the wooden fence would work also.

But these are also options... and one of which actually works now.

Large Platform.

It covers three squares, is mildly cheap to build.

Wooden fence would require a bit of coding on the developers side.

So what you're saying is that we should all build our camps on hills? Huh interesting. Would like to hear more words of wisdom.

[Bodil]

Yea I'm not gonna pay $20 a month for a game that I can only play an hour a day.

I don't get the change, YOU ALREADY GAVE THEM AN RP SERVER!

Let them go play on it instead of changing the "PVP" server.

An hour a week. JH is typically once a week. Retarded, I know.