Life is Feudal Official Forum

[HolyAvengerOne]

As discussed with Bobik during the March 14th Buyan AMA, some of us on Buyan don't feel that they had a chance to have their voice heard in the initial PVP ruleset decision for the server.

At the beginning there was a PVP game and 2 servers with the same ruleset, Avalon and Buyan. A couple months ago, during another Buyan AMA (development-news-85-pvp-oriented-ama-with-bobik-t31755), agreeing with the many present guild leaders' consensus, Bobik agreed to change it so that Buyan would have differences in its PVP mechanics/ruleset.

Yesterday we had a live AMA round table session with Bobik, leaders of top PvP guilds, Alliances and many other players. While transcription is being prepared, feel free to see the recording of this AMA session here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215431904

This resulted in that : https://lifeisfeudal.com/News/?n=devblog&art=532 ... Avalon getting a PVP tagged and that it would eventually get more JHs, but then it said :

Judgement Hours for Avalon and Buyan will have the following schedule:
Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday - 2 hours during primetime.

Later on, they changed it to 1 hour, as Bobik confirmed on the last AMA (see link above). This ended as such : vs. Avalon: the number of JHs (3 instead of 4) and length (1hr instead of 2hrs). And now, the difference in the impact of IBs (twice less).

The rationale behind the ask here : 1) the original vision that has been sold to us when we backed this game was clearly PVP-oriented; 2) there are no true alternative to that "harsher" PVP ruleset for us NA folk; 3) everyone should have a chance to vote and have their voice count.

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The Vote

1) If you vote and agree that "Buyan should be changed back to have a normal PVP ruleset, just like Avalon's.", then you agree that it should have the same number of JHs that Avalon has, including any other PVP rules (IBs, timers, sieges, etc.), as well as have "PVP" tag in its name on server selection.

2) If instead you vote and agree that "Buyan should remain as it is, with a softer version of the LiF PVP ruleset.", you agree that Buyan should remain a "Standard ruleset" server, like Telmun and Skjultland, so fewer JHs and otherwise softer PVP rules.

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In closing, thank you to the Bitbox team for having this dialog with us.

Respectfully,

Edited the OP as of 2018/09/19, to add details on the history of changes on Buyan's ruleset.

[Dorin_Eagleyes]

It would be nice if JH started an hour earlier at 9pm EST instead of 10pm. I'd be able to participate more often that way.

[Creez77]

WOULD LIKE THE 2 HOURS JH BACK BUT ONLY ON THE WEEKENDS

[HolyAvengerOne]

Thanks for the votes everyone, keep them coming! Let's show the devs what you all think!

[Soulfly006]

stop the bs its allready a pvp server

[MaxEisenhardt]

2 hour JHs!!!

[Ksteigerwalt202]

I agree that Buyan should be reverted to Avalon JH style, also set back the time by an hour so I can participate in more JHs than just the single Saturday one.

[bcbud]

Many people signed up for this server before different rulesets were decided.

We should all be given a free ticket so we can be allowed to go to a default ruleset server if you are making buyan a special ruleset server.

Unless this is another money grab to force players to buy tickets which frankly wont surprise me.

[Grishord]

This poll is misleading. Buyan was never a pvp rule set. You guys keep using the word revert, when it was never one to start with, it's always been standard.

[HolyAvengerOne]

This poll is misleading. Buyan was never a pvp rule set. You guys keep using the word revert, when it was never one to start with, it's always been standard.

It's not misleading. There was no PVP server to begin with, it was a PVP GAME we were sold on. And then as Avalon got tagged "PVP", Buyan got its PVP ruleset made easier and softer.

They were originally the same, hence "revert".

[Rusery]

We have Telmun and a PVE server, so why isnt Buyan a PVP server? Having two standard ruleset worlds isn't viable with our current population. Back when we had 2400 people during peak the double standard rule set was expected, but now with 1k-1200 at peak the worlds actually quite empty, considering its size.

So... What are the devs going to do about it? How are they going to keep the cash rolling? As the game stagnates, less people will be inclined to buy from their cash shop.

[Brasje]

- There should only be ONE Instance battle totem.
WHERE YOU PUT IT DOWN should matter, Remove the Decay property of the totem completely.

Field battles, put it anywhere against anyone. Field battle ensues where the IB is placed. Would give some unique settings for a "field battle".
-Winner is displayed on a ladder type ranking system(web page based)
-Loser, well is just a loser.


Siege battles, should have to be placed on the realm claim of your enemy.
- Winner is displayed on the same ladder ranking system (field/siege battle column W/L style).
- Loser loses 10 tiles of realm claim.


CURRENTLY the course of action and the ability to join IBs remotely favors a very linear play style(player logs in ques logs off/blob warfare). It also destroys the value of the Judgement hour over all. Why bring siege supplies to your enemies base when you can just throw down a series of time staggered totems and let their walls decay.

Why? defeats game play your game is designed around, Travel, interaction and resource management. With any sort of remote sign ups(Not traveling to the actual totem), you lose every single aspect of ambushing, defending walls against sappers/trebs/ladders, holding ground, supply lines and new PC/guild claim war outposts.

As for for Bobiks statement "you shouldnt be building on your realm claim." ~ Little late for that now bud.....especially when your adding in new features that potentially destroy thousands of hours layout/terraforming/building for many players.

Those players are the reason "PvPrs" even play this game, once they lose their work while being cheesed/Octa-rolled with IBs that are placed by the attackers base, and they dont get to defend what they built/forced on to the same generic field they WILL quit.

Buyan will turn into power blocks, which create lag on an already over burdened set of servers. No NEW guilds will spring up because they will just get IB'd remotely.

[Ancova]

Unless I am mistaken, Buyan's always been sold as the flagship standard server for North America. This poll is fundamentally misguided and presents a false dichotomy.

If it continues to be the case that a server node can be zerged during Judgment Hour such that it takes defenders on that server over five minutes to change one piece of equipment, over five minutes to open their gates, and over five minutes to close their gates while the attackers can autoclick their trebuchets — which has, in fact, happened — then I cannot condone any more Judgment Hours, because they are still exacerbating other fundamentally unsolved challenges.

[HolyAvengerOne]

Unless I am mistaken, Buyan's always been sold as the flagship standard server for North America. This poll is fundamentally misguided and presents a false dichotomy.

This game was always supposed to be rather involved PVP, and what some of us are against is the fact that Buyan become the easier and softer version of the ruleset. That was never advertised as such before.

[Big_smokey0]

Buyan has always been a standard ruleset regardless of LiF being a 'PvP game'. Nothing to "revert" to. A lot of less 'vocal' players like the current rule set and planned bases and strategies based on this level of PvP and rules. It would be unfair to change this or force them to relocate and start again because you want something different from what you signed up for. Again the ruleset of Buyan has always been a standard ruleset so by definition is not 'softer' as you say.

Your vote options are biased and misleading in their wording. I think you should be voting for a new NA world that has the equivalent rule set as Avalon so anyone who signs up to this world gets what they expect and are the ones who are forced to deal with the changes and upheaval you want.

Or just push to be able to move characters to the Avalon server? There are heaps of Asian and Australians who play on the NA servers currently and make it work. Why is this not an option?

[HolyAvengerOne]

Buyan has always been a standard ruleset regardless of LiF being a 'PvP game'. Nothing to "revert" to. A lot of less 'vocal' players like the current rule set and planned bases and strategies based on this level of PvP and rules. It would be unfair to change this or force them to relocate and start again because you want something different from what you signed up for. Again the ruleset of Buyan has always been a standard ruleset so by definition is not 'softer' as you say.

Try to see beyond the mere "PVP" and "Standard" tags they added to Buyan and Avalon. Buyan used to be 2h JH x 4 per week (as Avalon is now), not 1h x 3 as it is right now. That's how it was intended before it was watered down due to crying people on the losing side of PVP.

No matter how you want to rewrite history, that's still how it happened. Now get over it and get voting - not whining!

[MrEradSL]

Yep Buyan was supposed to be equal to Avalon and we got the bastardized rule set with even worse servers.

[Big_smokey0]

My original point was this is not a true 'Vote' its your point of view dressed up as a vote. Bias as.

Try to see beyond the mere "PVP" and "Standard" tags they added to Buyan and Avalon. Buyan used to be 2h JH x 4 per week (as Avalon is now), not 1h x 3 as it is right now. That's how it was intended before it was watered down due to crying people on the losing side of PVP.

Was originally 1hr hence the name judgement 'hour' and no re-write of history required. Please provide historical evidence of the devs 'intentions', exact number and frequency of judgement hours would be helpful or statements that Buyan was always 'intended' to match Buyan.

No matter how you want to rewrite history, that's still how it happened. Now get over it and get voting - not whining!

Hypocrasy much? I'm fine, nothing to get over. Looks like you are the one doing all the whinging.

[Hodo]

2 Things I want...

Sieges, they are desperately needed.

and a stable NA server.

[WestArcher]

Yes, Although I agree Buyan should be a PVP server.
I don't want to see it until the servers improve, granted they seem to have been getting better they still tend to tank when anything important happens.

[Freshmango55]

I was actually at that meeting, the majority of everyone disagreed with Bobik but he wasn't going to hear any of it.

[HolyAvengerOne]

My original point was this is not a true 'Vote' its your point of view dressed up as a vote. Bias as.

Try to see beyond the mere "PVP" and "Standard" tags they added to Buyan and Avalon. Buyan used to be 2h JH x 4 per week (as Avalon is now), not 1h x 3 as it is right now. That's how it was intended before it was watered down due to crying people on the losing side of PVP.

Was originally 1hr hence the name judgement 'hour' and no re-write of history required. Please provide historical evidence of the devs 'intentions', exact number and frequency of judgement hours would be helpful or statements that Buyan was always 'intended' to match Buyan.

At the beginning there was a PVP game and 2 servers with the same ruleset, Avalon and Buyan.

Then, that happened : development-news-85-pvp-oriented-ama-with-bobik-t31755. On the podcast, people were unhappy about the current ruleset and were whining. It says namely :

Yesterday we had a live AMA round table session with Bobik, leaders of top PvP guilds, Alliances and many other players. While transcription is being prepared, feel free to see the recording of this AMA session here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215431904

This resulted in that : https://lifeisfeudal.com/News/?n=devblog&art=532. It resulted in Avalon getting a PVP tagged and that it would eventually get more JHs, but then it said :

Judgement Hours for Avalon and Buyan will have the following schedule:
Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday - 2 hours during primetime.

Later on, they changed it to 1 hour, as Bobik confirmed on the last AMA (see the OP above).

So yes, at the beginning, it was the same result, and it was gonna be 2 hours, and both of these things changed because whines.

[Ancova]

Summing up the points of others as "whining" doesn't necessarily offer an ironclad response to observations that this false dichotomy of a poll is formed under a thick layer of bias.

There are some glaring holes in your account of how things got this way. Whether these omissions are due to the fact that you lack some of the cards or the fact that you are willfully not playing all the cards on the table is, however, inconsequential.

It might be more constructive to see what you would propose the Buyan rules would be if it went the way you're advocating, because right now that's somewhat unclear. Do you want Buyan to be identical to Avalon before server transfers are implemented...? What would the dialog screen contain before clicking on accept and transferring from Newbie Island to Buyan in your version of the game?

[Mvidualist]

I don't know how anybody thought Buyan was "originally a standard, and Avalon was a PvP server" thing.

Back in CBT, there was ONE server - the EU server. On the EU server, bark boxing was allowed. There was never any mention of it being removed. There was never any mention of it being watered down. It was used extensively and everyone built to expect it.

Come release, we were told there would be TWO servers - one EU, and one NA. Many NA guilds decided to go to NA, simply because the ping would be lower and prime time would suit them better. The guilds coming out of CBT were expecting bark boxing as a valid raid strategy.

A couple of weeks after release to OBT, bark boxing was suddenly removed altogether - with no warning and no replacement of PvP. Enter JH. Responding to the massive community outcry of the lack of valid PvP capability without bark boxing AND without JH, the devs inserted JH. It was originally planned for 4 times a week, for "several hours" on the weekends.

EU Avalon server was relatively stable - and JH went better than Buyan. Buyan server was a mess and completely unplayable during JH - so during testing, JH was reduced or removed for some days altogether.

Eventually, DB issues were worked out, and JH became much more playable (relatively speaking), and more similar to EU Avalon JH. It was at this time we expected NA to go back to the same ruleset as EU Avalon - 2H JH, 4 times a week. Remember, JH was the direct result of no bark boxing being possible, which many "sheep" asked for, and Bobik then gave in to.

As we all know, JH was never restored, and the devs silently removed Wednesday JH and said "Buyan only needs 1H JH on the weekends".

Basically - Buyan was NEVER marketed as a "standard" server - it was originally marketed as the same as the EU server, just in NA. Removal of bark boxing required the introduction of JH many times a week to promote more widespread PvP. NA had crippled server hardware and that was the reason given to the players for the crippled JH. The OP has an obvious opinion - but it most certainly is "reverting". The devs promised "several hours on the weekend" of JH in compensation for removal of bark boxing. This isn't bias - this is fact. It is a revert. CBT had full bark boxing - and it wasn't mentioned until it was removed that the devs even were considering removing it.

[Danieldesouzatelles]

2 hours JH during weekends starting one hour earlier. No JH during the middle of the week.

[AndrejVinterskorn]

Avalon petitioned to reinstate the 10 and 5 tile shrinkage associated with ib losses and based off the findings of that petition these values were reinstated. This is an opinion pole the how, why or what you believe is bias doesn't matter because the devs have set a precedent that this sort of thing will warrant change based off the findings.

[ObedSG]

I didn't realize Buyan had been nerfed vs Avalon. What craven rabble begged for such a thing? Tell your Gods to ready for blood.

[Eldurian]

More Judgement Hours? Naaaah. I like that I only have to rally to defend my stuff 2 times a week.

Judgement Hours actually allowing the attack of personal claims and destruction of personal monuments? Sure. Wouldn't mind seeing it made so that the only protection a claim offers is the reduced decay and inability to destroy structures as well. Might be a bit harsh to newbs like myself to let people plunder things we leave out in the open with no wall or structure to protect them but it would be way more immersive.

[Raxsavvage]

2

but with harsher rapid respawn penalties, chinese just throw skilless nakeds at peeps and punch them to death or die trying and retry immediately

[Ancova]

Avalon petitioned to reinstate the 10 and 5 tile shrinkage associated with ib losses and based off the findings of that petition these values were reinstated. This is an opinion pole the how, why or what you believe is bias doesn't matter because the devs have set a precedent that this sort of thing will warrant change based off the findings.

Those who paid attention to the last AMA will have noticed that Bobik didn't exactly say the dev team were interested in mobs armed with petition pitchforks.

There are many things capable of improving the situation that aren't included in this... nascent poll. This forum and the suggestions one — where this poll probably should have been from the start — already contain lots of ideas far better than that of foisting more instability on a dwindling server.