TL:DR
My suggestion is to limit the skill loss (if any) to only be in combat skill categories. Loosing items is punishment enough; loosing combat skills that require an hour of afk nonsense is harsh; loosing crafting skills that take several hours of mind numbing, boring repetition is ridiculous.
Yesterday I took a chance hunting a bear and I died. I did go back, picked up my junk, and killed the bastard with three more arrows. I knew I was playing with death, but I thought the fun was worth the risk. It turns out it wasn't at all.
My alignment is 74, but I lost 2 skill points and not 1 as the Wiki says. In addition to risking twice as much loss as I thought, the skill loss set me back more than I expected and made me wonder if risking death in open world PvP fun is worth it. I think it is not.
I lost 0.25 point in 8 skills each. I don't care about the loss in Battle Survival and Equipment Maintain and both my Artisan and Carpentry was set for reduction anyway. I lost 0.25 point in both Ranger and Swordsman, which means something like 10-15 minutes afk training with an afk partner for each. The 0.25 I lost in Healing means another 10-20 minutes active work on an afk partner, so not a super big deal either.
But, the 0.25 point I lost in Herbalism means 2-3 mind numbing hours of active harvesting herbs (maybe 8 hours afk harvesting) plus 10-15 minutes of active mixing preparations.
Total time to recover for the loss of 1 point in the 4 skills I care about is about 4 hours. Sorry guys, that is just not worth it. I am playing several games where I can PvP, but LiF MMO will not be one of them. I am playing games for their entertainment value, not because I am looking for boredom.
I am not new to full looting games and I have no problem with it, but while most other games will set you back with the items you lose, few games punish you by making you do stupid crap for hours and hours. Loosing combat skills that mostly require afk skill training for up to an hour is enough, loosing crafting skills that takes hours and hours of mind numbing repetition to recover is not.
If I had known what I know now, back when I started, then I would still make a PvE toon (but I would have known to make it a female miner) and I would still make a PvP toon, but I would only use it for PvE to get a little bit of skill in as many categories as possible (purely to "risk" loosing skill there). Unfortunately, I have already spent many many hours on the PvE side of my PvP toon, so now it will be for PvE only.
I suppose a lot of the PvP players are less concerned about skill loss than I am because they knew better and only do PvE with that toon to have "cheap" skills to loose in the lottery. I have painted myself into a corner with my "PvP toon" so I have been cured of PvP in this game.
All skill loss is not equal - how I got cured of PvP
3 posts
• Page 1 of 1
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Thomas2 - Posts: 4
- Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 21:34
All skill loss is not equal - how I got cured of PvP
by
Thomas2
» 26 May 2018, 18:50
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Thomas2 - Posts: 4
- Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 21:34
Re: All skill loss is not equal - how I got cured of PvP
by
Thomas2
» 13 Jun 2018, 18:43
Seriously? Zero comments!
Am I really the only one who thinks that the death penalty is totally unbalanced and a major barrier for PvE players to join in on open world PvP?
TL:DR
My alternative suggestion is to base the death penalty on a standardized loss of experience points that makes all players equal instead of an unbalanced punishment with indiscriminate loss of skill points regardless of the level they are taken from. PvE players don't PvP because they have far more to lose, so a reasonable solution would be equally measured death punishment for all; not increasing the likelihood that PvE players fall victim to ganking.
If someone with level 97 in Artisan cuts down a tree and uproot it, then the progression is 0.008 skill point. If someone with level 39 cuts down and uproot the same tree, then the progression is 0.5 skill point. This is pretty normal as both players gain, say, 50 experience points, but the progression requirement increases exponentially, so you get a diminishing return on "the grind". In other words, the experience point gain is equal, but the skill gain is not. There is nothing strange in this, as that is how all MMOs work.
I am an old school MMO player and I thrive on "the grind", but while I have played several MMOs where death was penalized, I have never played a game where some players were punished more than 62 times more severely than other players. And that is only comparing level 97 to level 39! For a full skill point, a low level guy has to cut down one or two trees, while the level 97 player has to cut down 125 trees. That is outrageously unbalanced. And, it is just a tier 1 skill that does not require preparation. Regardless of the actual multiplier for PvE player punishment, it is a discriminatory game mechanic and it is not a surprise that there is a very big divide between PvP and PvE players.
The loss of, for example, 200 or 500 random experience points would be a balanced and equal penalty for all players, but a skill level randomly split over several skills regardless of level and tier is definitely not equal. Strictly speaking, this is punishing players harder the more time and effort they have "invested" in the game. As it is now, one player stands to lose maybe 300 experience points while another player stands to lose 18,600. Are you surprised that one of those players will do everything possible to avoid any form of PvP encounter?
It seems to me that the developers are stubbornly trying to force PvE players with no inclination to PvP into PvPing, which is incredibly foolish. PvE players do not refrain from PvPing simply because they are incapable of finding a fight, so when the next major patch opens the flood gates for PvP raiders to roam the green worlds, the green worlds will surely further depopulate as there will be significantly higher risk of getting ganked. It will be ganking and not fair open world PvP fights, because you will have PvP players with "nothing" to lose coming to have fun at the PvE players' expense - even if they meet a green world player who can kick their butt, they just have to go back to their red world where they can skill back up much faster than on the green worlds.
Sex with someone who does not consent is rape and attacking another player without consent to PvP fighting is the basic definition of griefing. If you want more PvE players to PvP, then make the death penalty balanced and ensure consequences are equally measured for all. Providing red world PvP players more sheep to slaughter on green worlds will not stop the depopulation of any of the worlds either.
But, the next major patch is not all bad, because I will be able to try out PvP in the Arena on equal footing with the full-time PvP players. I will probably lose a lot, but at least I don't have to cut down a forest every single time!
Am I really the only one who thinks that the death penalty is totally unbalanced and a major barrier for PvE players to join in on open world PvP?
TL:DR
My alternative suggestion is to base the death penalty on a standardized loss of experience points that makes all players equal instead of an unbalanced punishment with indiscriminate loss of skill points regardless of the level they are taken from. PvE players don't PvP because they have far more to lose, so a reasonable solution would be equally measured death punishment for all; not increasing the likelihood that PvE players fall victim to ganking.
If someone with level 97 in Artisan cuts down a tree and uproot it, then the progression is 0.008 skill point. If someone with level 39 cuts down and uproot the same tree, then the progression is 0.5 skill point. This is pretty normal as both players gain, say, 50 experience points, but the progression requirement increases exponentially, so you get a diminishing return on "the grind". In other words, the experience point gain is equal, but the skill gain is not. There is nothing strange in this, as that is how all MMOs work.
I am an old school MMO player and I thrive on "the grind", but while I have played several MMOs where death was penalized, I have never played a game where some players were punished more than 62 times more severely than other players. And that is only comparing level 97 to level 39! For a full skill point, a low level guy has to cut down one or two trees, while the level 97 player has to cut down 125 trees. That is outrageously unbalanced. And, it is just a tier 1 skill that does not require preparation. Regardless of the actual multiplier for PvE player punishment, it is a discriminatory game mechanic and it is not a surprise that there is a very big divide between PvP and PvE players.
The loss of, for example, 200 or 500 random experience points would be a balanced and equal penalty for all players, but a skill level randomly split over several skills regardless of level and tier is definitely not equal. Strictly speaking, this is punishing players harder the more time and effort they have "invested" in the game. As it is now, one player stands to lose maybe 300 experience points while another player stands to lose 18,600. Are you surprised that one of those players will do everything possible to avoid any form of PvP encounter?
It seems to me that the developers are stubbornly trying to force PvE players with no inclination to PvP into PvPing, which is incredibly foolish. PvE players do not refrain from PvPing simply because they are incapable of finding a fight, so when the next major patch opens the flood gates for PvP raiders to roam the green worlds, the green worlds will surely further depopulate as there will be significantly higher risk of getting ganked. It will be ganking and not fair open world PvP fights, because you will have PvP players with "nothing" to lose coming to have fun at the PvE players' expense - even if they meet a green world player who can kick their butt, they just have to go back to their red world where they can skill back up much faster than on the green worlds.
Sex with someone who does not consent is rape and attacking another player without consent to PvP fighting is the basic definition of griefing. If you want more PvE players to PvP, then make the death penalty balanced and ensure consequences are equally measured for all. Providing red world PvP players more sheep to slaughter on green worlds will not stop the depopulation of any of the worlds either.
But, the next major patch is not all bad, because I will be able to try out PvP in the Arena on equal footing with the full-time PvP players. I will probably lose a lot, but at least I don't have to cut down a forest every single time!
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Thomas2 - Posts: 4
- Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 21:34
Re: All skill loss is not equal - how I got cured of PvP
by
Thomas2
» 11 Jul 2018, 14:27
Thank you for the 21K Gods' Favor compensation.
I have spent 5K to rename my original PvP toon that got too high crafting skills so I could not use it for PvP. I spent 10K on a ticket for a new PvP toon which will definitely not be used for PvE. I haven't yet decided if I will spend the remaining GF on giving my mining toon a sex change to female.
I could not have done this without the compensation, because paying for those changes with RL money would make me feel like I would be rewarding you for game features I definitely do not support!
I have spent 5K to rename my original PvP toon that got too high crafting skills so I could not use it for PvP. I spent 10K on a ticket for a new PvP toon which will definitely not be used for PvE. I haven't yet decided if I will spend the remaining GF on giving my mining toon a sex change to female.
I could not have done this without the compensation, because paying for those changes with RL money would make me feel like I would be rewarding you for game features I definitely do not support!
3 posts
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