Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

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Loptrinho
 
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Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Loptrinho » 18 Oct 2015, 20:44

or "Learn to use a plow or you'll never be a good tailor!"

  • Bow Mastery is required to use bows - well, ok, makes kind of sense
  • Bow Mastery requires Crossbows Mastery - uh, what? really? so I can't use a bow if I am no crossbow master? hmmm, I can say, I am indeed an archer (no master, right) and I am quite able to hit my targets though I never held a crossbow in my whole life.
  • Crossbows Mastery requires Leather Armors - so, basically what you're saying is that additonally to being a crossbow master, I need to be high proficient with leather armor - in order to use a bow efficiently... ermm, yes - no, not really
  • Primitive Bow can be crafted at crafting skill of 0 (zero!). basically, I do not have to but snapping off branches, logging trees and then sawing them to building logs to unlock this
  • The Light Crossbow needs a Linen Rope that needs a Spinnig Wheel (Nails, Weavers Tolkit, Wheel), so first need to learn smithing (and create tools) before I can even use a bow...
  • And remember: I still need to be proficient with Leather Armors before I can even start using crossbows.
  • And when I have gone through all that is needed to start using bows, I need 1 (one!) branch and 2 (two!) Wild Plant Fibres to make my first bow?
  • Oh, and to make the nonsense complete, I cannot wear Leather Armor before having learnt to throw things around...

Sorry to say that, but in my opinion ranged combat skills need a complete overhaul. Don't get me wrong here: I am sure that you have plenty of reasons why you designed them the way they are - it just doesn't make sense in my eyes - not even from the balancing view (what would have been my first guess for a major reason).

Even if we ignore crafting prerequisites (as you basically only need your bow to start shooting, and in an MMO you should always be able to get it from other players), I can't see a single reason for that absurd skill chain.

To make a long story short: With the chosen way to implement player access to bow mastery, you do not only make it frustrating for the player to even get there, you ignore reality completely. In reality, shooting with a bow is a everyman thing! Anyone can hold a bow, aim and shoot!

Additionally, you can use a sword right from the beginning - without any prerequisites! And we all know that, in real life, it was much harder to get hands on a blade than on a bow.

Bow Mastery must be a base skill in my eyes (just like throwing weapons and shortswords - oh and by the way: it is way more difficult to use a sling than to shoot a bow).

Looking through the combat skill makes me feel that many of them should be standalone skills (the same is true for crafting skills: e.g. why would I ever need to be able to till the land in order to tailor my clothes...)

Breaking up the chains would give players a far greater level of freedom. This would in no way reduce the ability to create a balanced game (in fact, as I am writing this, I already had some ideas!).


Hoshiqua
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Hoshiqua » 19 Oct 2015, 15:38

Well, you can go and upvote my suggestion to remove the skill lines :D
it is on the suggestions page.

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Airco
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Airco » 19 Oct 2015, 16:05

agreed they are weard at best bhut removing the skill lines completely aint real eather u cant become a master blacksmith if u dont know where ore come's from or a master carpenter if u got no qlue what wood u are useing, what about masonry ... hard to build a top quality house if u know jack shit about fundations.
same go's for cooking so on crafting its not bad (perhaps alchemy and healing should be switched and indeed tailoring is...wtf )

the combat skill line is totaly wtf agreed on that despite the fact they did it to balance combat
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Hoshiqua
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Hoshiqua » 19 Oct 2015, 16:39

Well, yea, having an IDEA of how the goods you use are themselves crafted could be necessary to be the master of a craft, but, 60 is a heck of a lot of points, and it is extremely annoying when you don't actually need that skill to use the next one. And even then, if I wanna be a blacksmith in a village that imports pre-made ingots and bars, I don't want to go all the way to some other place just to train my mining skill to SIXTY (sixty in game would be a quite experienced worker IRL).

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Airco
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Airco » 19 Oct 2015, 17:20

that i can not deny, bhut it aint easy
pretty sure if somebody comes up whit a idea that bobik just falls in love whit that it wil be inplemented for sure
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RoboSenshi
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by RoboSenshi » 19 Oct 2015, 20:16

All they need to do is remove the skill lines for the things that are unrealistic and keep it for other. Keep the mining/blacksmith skill line intact with the prerequisite but separate the others like with bow craft. I don't think it would be too difficult.


MarcCeras
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by MarcCeras » 26 Oct 2015, 15:10

Different example:

Right now I am playing the Herbology "Line", I played the whole last weekend, round about 18 hours RL (Yes, I played alot this weekend). I am finally at a 75 Skill in Herbalism ... not less not more, I identifed 20 Plants completly and found my 11 Fluxplants. Yesterday my "team" was tasked with building 10 Walls, a Tower, and a Stair and our Carpenter was off. I was the only with a skill at all in Forestry (45 Basic for the race I play). So I planted a few Pinetrees, 10 Minutes later my Skill was 61 in Forestry. Then I logged a few trees, 10 Minutes later Skill was at 30 in Logging, then I started to saw billets ... after 3 (!) hours my skill list is now: 63 in Forestry, 92 in Logging, 93 in Carpentry and 65 in Bowcraft... and we play on a 1.0 Skillprogression Server.

Then I thougt to myself... "First, its to fast, when the MMO starts I am finished with my skill line in one week. Second are you fucking kidding me? I need 3 hours to become a veritable Bowcarfter? I even could start to build Siegeengines (Tier 5 Skill). While I not even identifed all my plants (Tier 3 Skill) ???" There are 18 hours against 3 hours.

I also say... abolish the skilltree. There should be a bonus if you have a related skill (simplest would be a Qualitybonus or a Luckbonus as if you would wear a ring), but it should not be necessary to become a Lumberjack to build Bows. Second, IF the skill tree gets abolished, set the Skillprogression to 0.1 and even think about to decrease the skillcap to 300. With that you would have ONE Skill you are master in (realistic), one "Hobbyskill" you are good at or even superb and a few low skills. AND you HAVE to trade with others. And last but not least, rework the skillprogression of the Skills. It´s not fair that you first have to search 10 times as a Herbalist to find ONE Fungi with 10 - 25 % sucessrate when you start with the skill and the Forester goes to a tree and simply can snap off a few branches with a 100% sucess gurantee.

All in all.. I am not complaining that its to hard to obtain skills, no, I complain thats to easy to obtain them and that it is unfair that some skills are so super simple to learn (Bowcraft... craft Arrows 20 times (its even an automatic) and you are at 65 in Bowcraft. And you simply need 20 feathers and 20 Logs. For Herbalogy you need 66 herbs and at least 5 of them each, for which you need 6 hours to even collect them, and then you start a painstalking trial and error testrow).


Andrewwhitus
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Andrewwhitus » 04 May 2016, 19:15

I'm glad i'm not the only one..
In the history of man, the bow is simple to make...

I want to make a bow,
can't because i dont know how to use crossbows...
I want to make a crossbow..
can't because i dont know how to make linen rope.
I want to make linen rope..
can't because i dont know how to make a spinning wheele.
want to make a spinning wheele
can't because i dont know how to make...

I JUST WANT TO MAKE A BOW!

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Airco
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Airco » 05 May 2016, 06:15

old topic, skillines have been overhauld,

makeing a bow is not simple at all, requires a string that can handle the stress and wood thats flexible enoph whitouwth brakeing while stil being strong
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Andrewwhitus
 
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Re: Bow Mastery as an example why skills need to be overhauled

Post by Andrewwhitus » 05 May 2016, 14:22

I disagree (i've made one in RL) and even the game says its simple. 1 branch and 1 rope. Everyone that plays can gather those materials in about 60 seconds.
I'm just saying to have to become proficient at using crossbows first is not logical.

btw, I'm loving the game, the slow progression, the difficulty, ect. Just voicing my frustration with a very specific aspect of the game which in my opinion strays from reality.

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