Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Toren]

First of all, I'm super happy that there was a major combat overhaul in the first place. I am, however, a little disappointed that it did not fix all of the major issues with combat.

I remember awhile back that the devs stated there weren't supposed to be weapons that could kill people in one shot if they were in armor.
For example, the long pike (and short and medium to a lesser extent) can still hit for 200 piercing damage to armored targets and get 80 speed bonuses for full damage at point blank. And considering it wasn't changed at all this patch, I'm fairly certain it can still hit through walls and buildings even after that was supposedly patched months ago.
Naphtha pots somehow feel even stronger (1-2 shotting people with tier two metal armors with high constitution builds) after the patch and easier to use with the correct stats, not to mention that getting high quality naphtha pots are easier to get than other metal throwing weapons after the implementation of metal quality caps.
Poisons can still 1 shot people with how much damage they do over a relatively short period of time. Antidotes don't really help in all situations, because even if you could afford to have one- the effect of the antidote is nullified when hit while drinking it, which is fairly easy to see happening when someone poisons you with a light sabre and then keeps slashing in order to make impossible to use it. Arggh is the only true counter to them, but it also so happens that using it takes at least 240 skill points, while using a poison only really takes 180 skill points, meaning that the only counter to poisons take more points than the actual skill itself.

And now with the new patch we have horse ramming, which to some degree makes sense that running people into objects should damage them. But within the scope of the game, it really shouldn't do 140-150 HHp (essentially a 1 shot for a lot of builds) damage for a good hit.

Hit-and-run fighting sort of got nerfed with the barefoot nerf and constitution being armor carry weight now, but considering how much armor costs now, I can only imagine seeing more people doing the good old fashioned hit r to get away technique. Coward only hits people while they are out of combat, so if people sense the coward coming they can quickly go into combat stance to force it to fail and then go back out to keep running.

As far as weapon balance goes, shouldn't all weapons and fighting styles have a purpose on the battlefield taking into consideration the skill cap? For example, when is the last time that someone used a heavy war horse for anything other than a meat shield, or used a scimitar, pollaxe, war scythe, etc.? While certain weapons like the awl pike and light sabre were pulled out of the trash bin this patch, others took their place (RIP knight sword). It has become a joke of sorts among my friends that the weapons that are terrible today will become OP tomorrow and vice versa. I get the impression that weapons that get the hard nerf get it for the wrong reason, I.E. the knight sword was super OP because of the underhand and overhand stabs, but instead of nerfing/removing those attacks the sword was just nerfed in general. Same thing happened with the light sabre, which did way too much damage metal armors about 6 months ago considering its speed, and instead of somehow making it bad against heavy armors, it was just made bad in general. It just kills the potential diversity of the game when certain weapons work better in most situations than others. Two-handed swords went for the easy to use noob slashers to relatively pointless weapons.

Now I know some people will say combat balance isn't what most of the community cares about, but if you watch the steam stats for the game you will notice that the game pop spiked by a good 1000 avg peak players after the patch which is quite a bit considering the game fluctuates between 1500-1800, and is now dwindling back down; presumably because of people disappointed in the changes to combat or quality caps and farming changes. I know many members of the larger potential communities really only care about the potential combat mid-end game of the MMO, and if the mechanics aren't there they most likely won't play in force.

[MrTopbanana]

Hello,


i think poison is something very expansive and if someone decide to use it, let him get the reward. To nerf it, would make the poison useless.
(but yes, they are stronK)

Horses: without a pike, u cant do ANYTHING against horses now. If the enemy have a lance, u pretty much wont reach him becuz when u try to hit him, he will ram u away. And if he hits u, u are 50% dead.

The Pike seems actually fine for me, its hard to get hit by the pike as a normal player. Once he slashes and u engage, hes lost.

About hit and run i agree, specially archers are still annoying. They should be forced to "slow down" while putting their sword/weapon away.

I like the different weapons and the different fight styles u have with them, but i feel some weapons to stronK as well (De Corbin is pretty decent against everything, becaus of its high piercing dmg) - and its a spear, which is tier 2 - it wont use alot of points. Even when it lacks "special combos", the special combos mostly just give time to counter them when u see them comming.

I just feel Blunt weapons to stronK this days, becaus they stun, knock people out(drop em to ground) and dont kill em as well - they also break bones, they have alot of passive effects. If there is a enemy with lets say 50 strenght and u break a bone, he wont be able to use 2 hander anymore.

The fighting system itself is pretty awesome, in my opinion - EXEPT the 1hander guys who are always "bending over" and hit ur legs and stick to ur body the whole time. Its pretty annoying, it often turn to a "i hit ur legs" fight.

[Sharana]

Someone still uses poison?

Anyway the regular poison you can fight is 3.0, 4.5 will be pretty rare and not to mention 5.5. So as the poison is fixed at 10 seconds now that means 30 damage. Even the 4.5 poison will mean loss of 45 hp - that's about 1/3 of the current const builds.

It's not the long duration we had before where you run with 2 poisoned swords - hit once and wait for argh, then hit again and run, because the enemy will die 100%. Now the argh/antidotes give you immunity window where you can't be poisoned again. And the 1st poison itself will take away 30 - 45 hp away from you even if untreated...

[Azzerhoden]

Damage around horses is being worked on.

I agree that all weapons should be viable in combat, but realistically speaking, sometimes its rock-paper-scissors. Was small group fighting/testing combat a few weeks ago against someone with a maul. Hurt like a mother(90hps soft) but was slow. Once I got used to facing it my war pick held its own.

As for the Knight Sword, what made it OP before was the large hitting area it gave, not just the special attacks. Once you adjust to the smaller area it does fine. The Nordic sword needs it's hitting area reduced a bit as we frequently do as much or more damage with it now then the knight sword.

The boar spear is another weapon that needs to be adjusted. Spears give added range, which is good. However, you can be right on top of someone and still do great damage.

Overall though, this was a major step in the right direction and I congratulate Bitbox for doing a great job in a difficult area.

[Toren]

Hello,

Horses: without a pike, u cant do ANYTHING against horses now. If the enemy have a lance, u pretty much wont reach him becuz when u try to hit him, he will ram u away. And if he hits u, u are 50% dead.

The Pike seems actually fine for me, its hard to get hit by the pike as a normal player. Once he slashes and u engage, hes lost.

I just feel Blunt weapons to stronK this days, becaus they stun, knock people out(drop em to ground) and dont kill em as well - they also break bones, they have alot of passive effects. If there is a enemy with lets say 50 strenght and u break a bone, he wont be able to use 2 hander anymore.

The fighting system itself is pretty awesome, in my opinion - EXEPT the 1hander guys who are always "bending over" and hit ur legs and stick to ur body the whole time. Its pretty annoying, it often turn to a "i hit ur legs" fight.

Against horses, you can actually use a poleaxe as well as one other secret weapon in the warrior tree that can dismount horses too.

I don't know if you've ever seen the pike used to its full extent because I know a lot of people have never seen how broken it is as far as getting high speed bonuses and hitting through walls/buildings. If it had its speed bonus based off of the enemy speed alone, I would have no problem with it even though it still has a fairly high base damage.

Blunt does feel a lot stronger now a days with the stuns. That is the reason why I switched from knight sword as a secondary to flanged mace for the time being.

Face hugging is pretty damn annoying, especially when you combo it with the smaller female hitbox, but it is one of the ways of getting around the longer weapons I guess.

Damage around horses is being worked on.

I agree that all weapons should be viable in combat, but realistically speaking, sometimes its rock-paper-scissors. Was small group fighting/testing combat a few weeks ago against someone with a maul. Hurt like a mother(90hps soft) but was slow. Once I got used to facing it my war pick held its own.

As for the Knight Sword, what made it OP before was the large hitting area it gave, not just the special attacks. Once you adjust to the smaller area it does fine. The Nordic sword needs it's hitting area reduced a bit as we frequently do as much or more damage with it now then the knight sword.

The boar spear is another weapon that needs to be adjusted. Spears give added range, which is good. However, you can be right on top of someone and still do great damage.

Overall though, this was a major step in the right direction and I congratulate Bitbox for doing a great job in a difficult area.

I'm just saying with weapon balance, it isn't really like rock-paper-scissors for all weapons. I don't like the maul personally, but I do like what it does now. Since it has such a high strength requirement, it basically makes the user a glass cannon. This is counterbalanced by the fact that it can basically end a fight with one knock down. I'm just saying most weapons don't have this much flavor to them.

I have no issue with getting hits with the knight sword now, just the damage. The thing is the pitchfork does more piercing damage than the knight sword, and morning stars hit through shields for more piercing damage on average too. To clarify, I'm just talking about the default stab, though I wish the special attacks didn't do more damage for the 1 handed swords. If it was slowed a bit and had its piercing tuned up I think it would still be fine. But that is just one example really, I didn't mean to focus on the knight sword.

You have to realize that a LOT of weapons can hit directly on top of people. Maul, bec, sometimes poleaxes, and quite a few other weapons, especially with the smaller range of female characters. I think what makes the boar spear OP is that it works better with a shield than without in all situations.

There's other stuff I wanted to add here, like why can't horses run through shallow water, but I just figured one step at a time.

[MrErad]

On blunt weapons the one hand versions seem to be balanced maybe could use some tweaking. The 2h maul paired off with war cries is more broken than without. The high strength requirement doesn't offset this. Shots can range from 80 to 120+ on any of the t2 armors.

The Knight Sword is truly in an odd place. Compared to the nordic the slashing is at best 1 point higher depending on skills. The overhead is easily 9pts or more and the pierce is a couple points higher. The counter to this is that added range from the Knight is beneficial. They could increase the slash back up by 3 to 4 points and think it would be balanced vs the nordic. Speed and reach vs Range & Damage. The only other sword that feels acceptable with the above 2 is the light saber. I still cant find a situation where I would ever want the Falchion or Schimitar

One and Half Swords / Half Handed Swords I would love to see fixed and actually useful. You can't combo off them they feel to slow and the only semi useful one is the estoc.

For my testing I play a t2 plate female char with a kite shield sometimes tower and depending on the situation I prefer the nordic for face hugging against long weapons and using the knight vs things like the war pick, cudge, morning star. There still is an issue with the females reach being bugged that make cudgel , flange , star nearly useless.

Spears shouldn't gain an attack speed increase when a board is equipped. This is leading to one of the imbalances and the handle hit range needs to be increased if someone is face hugging. Once you break the spear users range advantage they shouldnt have a chance of doing full damage.

Hit n Run is pretty useless and always has been in group combat. 1vs1 its a bit different but its still easy to punish a fast mover if you're rocking at least 89/90 speed. The only class that is still a problem is the light leather archer but 60 skill in warrior can make it annoying for them.

Poisons seem to be more balanced but we'll know more in the MMO. To make my build even work with poisons without increasing INT I would have to sacrafice skills that would alter my play style. After some testing I wouldn't give up any points in armor or weapon skills since thats where our defense mitigation and damage comes from.

[Toren]

My point on the knight sword is that it should be at a downside in slashing compared to most of the other 1 handed swords, but be better at piercing seeing as that it would look to be an ideal sword for piercing. The nordic should be a nice balance between piercing and slashing relative to swing speed. The falchion should honestly do the most slashing seeing as it is the heaviest, with the scimitar coming in at 2nd most slashing but slightly faster, with the light sabre being great for dealing high slashing dps to lightly armored opponents.

For the half handers, they are as you said for the most part useless, but when combo'd with a shield they swing faster and do more slashing damage just like the spears do with shields, which makes absolutely no sense. With this weapons like the big falchion and gross messer become useful, but honestly skill wise this is near impossible in the MMO to use effectively. They need to be buffed on their standard 2 handed grip usage, and their individuality.

Then you get to poleaxes, which seem to have a huge difference between them in utility. Partisan is great for piercing and ranged melee, which makes sense, but leaves you vulnerable at close range. Glaive is great for slashing and the intermediate ranged fighting. Guisarme used to be my favorite, but now it kinda feels like a weaker middle ground between the Glaive and Partisan. To add some variety, the guisarme could be given something like a hook special attack that trips people if it hits them in the legs similar to the heavy stun knockdowns, considering that it has a hook on it. The Pollaxe just feels completely irrelevant after it got nerfed last year. It used to do stupidly high piercing, but now just feels pointless. If it was given the ability to switching between the axe and hammer heads for different situations, maybe it would become a more utilized weapon.

If each weapon had its own perks and downsides, I imagine weapon use variety would pick up in the game. That's just what I'm trying to get at, because I imagine variety would break the current dullness that comes from everyone using just the boar spear, morning star, war pick, flanged mace, partisan and the maul at the moment (admittedly, these are the weapons I currently use too).

I completely forgot about 1 handed axes too, just like everyone else.

[MrTopbanana]

Not sure if we talk about the same knight sword, becaus the ine i tested yesterday does insane high damage.
We used blunt and chainmail helmets, with same speed the knight sword did only alittle bit less dmg then flamberge.

Knightsword was around 24 and flamberge 28.
The range is insane as well as well as the speed + shield.


I feel spears are to strong. The dmg is to high and u can be close to enemy and still do very high damage.
Same with de corbin, its simply to stronk in damage dor its piercing damage .

I feel the polearms got nerfed to much. They are something u nearly never see ingame and in the mmo, i think a very small amount of people go for it, cuz u only have 400 points.
They also tier 3 which means more skillpoints. Why bother when u get de coebin in skill tree before.
Ot just go bardiche 2 h axe.

[Styxwash]

Maybe the Guisarme and other types became abit less viable, but like spears, the Partisan is totally overpowered now.

Both groups need to have lower piercing damage to be competitve with other weapon classes.

I'm sure there will be some tweaking to the current balance.

[Toren]

Maybe the Guisarme and other types became abit less viable, but like spears, the Partisan is totally overpowered now.

Both groups need to have lower piercing damage to be competitve with other weapon classes.

I'm sure there will be some tweaking to the current balance.

Well considering they do about as much damage as war picks and less than morning stars, I'd say compared to weapons like that and maybe the maul and flanged mace they are "balanced". The issue is there seems to be two different baseline damage values for different weapons, with spears, the partisan, morning star, war pick, flanged mace, maul, crossbows, naphtha pots on one baseline and 1, 1.5, 2 handed swords, 1 handed axes, war scythe, and the other poleaxes on the other. I think the devs just need to determine which baseline damage system they want and balance weapons from there, instead of switching them back and forth between the baselines like they usually do.

And nobody else has been able to get 200 piercing against t2 chainmail w/ the long pike since the patch consistently like me? Was I just imagining it?

[Toren]

Someone still uses poison?

Anyway the regular poison you can fight is 3.0, 4.5 will be pretty rare and not to mention 5.5. So as the poison is fixed at 10 seconds now that means 30 damage. Even the 4.5 poison will mean loss of 45 hp - that's about 1/3 of the current const builds.

It's not the long duration we had before where you run with 2 poisoned swords - hit once and wait for argh, then hit again and run, because the enemy will die 100%. Now the argh/antidotes give you immunity window where you can't be poisoned again. And the 1st poison itself will take away 30 - 45 hp away from you even if untreated...

Just tested this, and a magnitude 4.65 poison killed me in 1 shot, I had 145 hHP after getting slashed, and the poison still had a quarter of the way to go after it killed me. So I don't know where you got 4.5 will mean loss of 45 hp, unless you mean to say they haven't implemented it yet which is what I would hope.

[Azzerhoden]

A lot of great feedback in this thread.

With the whining over the past couple weeks I thought it worth pointing out.

[Sharana]

Just tested this, and a magnitude 4.65 poison killed me in 1 shot, I had 145 hHP after getting slashed, and the poison still had a quarter of the way to go after it killed me. So I don't know where you got 4.5 will mean loss of 45 hp, unless you mean to say they haven't implemented it yet which is what I would hope.

Then something changed after the latest patch about poisons. When you were slashed how long was the poison effect? After the poisons nerf (till the latest patch) the duration was only 10 sec and 4.5 (there is no 4.65 magnitude) magnitude was taking 4.5 hp/sec.

[Toren]

Well 145/4.65 is about 30 secs and considering it was only about 75% of the way done it would make it about 40 seconds long. That was a q100 poison. I also made a q38 hHP poison with really bad materials that did 40 hHP damage with a magnitude of 2, so that one lasted about 20 seconds too.

On the other hand, the resistance from a magnitude 1.5 antidote prep repelled a q100 hHp poison and lasted over a minute long.

I'd just say there is still some balancing to be done in this aspect, as well all aspects of the game, not that it needs saying.

[Ygg]

I'd definitely like to see some reworking of the current weapon values. It seems as if now damage correlates to weapon weight, which is fine to some degree, however maybe tone some of them down a bit, getting one shot naked is probably realistic, but it's a game, give us a sporting chance. Alternatively getting one shot in armor is asinine. Top priority should be fixing "that" weapon.

[Toren]

Some other bugs/annoyances that I forgot to post about earlier:

Occasionally when on horseback trying to lance someone, if I got stunned by a dull bolt/arrow it would make the stun last infinitely long. I couldn't go out of combat because I was stunned, so I could not dismount. The only way that I got around it was either by GM deleting my horse from under me (which isn't really a solution) or by ramming my horse into a tree/water or having it killed. It doesn't happen every time, but it still happens frequently enough to be a problem.

When doing pounce vs shield bash, shield bash always wins. You would think with pounce having the body weight of the user behind it that it would beat the shield bash when the two are used against each other.

This one is a really old one, but you can invite people to trade/unit while fighting with them to make near impossible for them to really fight. Would be nice if while in combat stance it would prevent popups from happening (unless there is a setting for this already).

War scythe stops horses. Don't know if this one is intentional or not, but I only noticed it during the beta and it was still a thing upon release. I guess it makes sense when looking at the weapon, not that I would use it as a weapon in any case. I was kinda planning on keeping this one a secret, but considering how slow the weapon is it still isn't really a viable weapon, so I figured I didn't have much to lose.

[MrTopbanana]

I still think the pollarm need love! Cthey are tier 3 weapons but simply suck.

And what really need to be fixed: people hitting u, put away their weapons and run and when u try to move or what ever, they will do the same and u will never reach em.
You need to make em atop run(dtand still) while they put awat their weapons or make em walk very slow

[Styxwash]

True, I actually agree that the other weapons are unpowered now compared to the spears and blunt/piercing weapons.

Most people want the low damage end though I think. But to be honest it might a too slow pace for combat.

[Azzerhoden]

War scythe stops horses. Don't know if this one is intentional or not, but I only noticed it during the beta and it was still a thing upon release. I guess it makes sense when looking at the weapon, not that I would use it as a weapon in any case. I was kinda planning on keeping this one a secret, but considering how slow the weapon is it still isn't really a viable weapon, so I figured I didn't have much to lose.

A war scythe is a poleaxe, and poleaxes can stop a charging warhorse.

[Toren]

War scythe stops horses. Don't know if this one is intentional or not, but I only noticed it during the beta and it was still a thing upon release. I guess it makes sense when looking at the weapon, not that I would use it as a weapon in any case. I was kinda planning on keeping this one a secret, but considering how slow the weapon is it still isn't really a viable weapon, so I figured I didn't have much to lose.

A war scythe is a poleaxe, and poleaxes can stop a charging warhorse.

True, however it is underneath two-handed axes mastery still.