Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Jezbelle]

MMO's like Runescape and WoW have PROVED that gamers are willing to pay a monthly subscription in order to play a good MMO.

Please do a business model like Runescape. Scrap "buy 2 play", and make the MMO "free to play" instead. But if someone wants access to the very last tier of skills maybe, or the ability to wear "royal" armor, then they should have to pay a subscription.

This way, the MMO will gain an enormous player base (as do all free games), and when the player has become 'addicted' to the game, he'll absolutely pay the subscription in order to play competitively.

LIF actually already has a similar system planned: to make "newbie" island free-to-play; but this will NOT work. Players will not be enticed enough by newbie island to then want to pay full price for the game. They will only be enticed by the real, thriving MMO world, full with social activity, battles, castles and landscaped villages.

[Elindor]

I kinda agree here...

Mortal Online's model actually works pretty well (one of the few things they did right).

In Mortal its free to start and play as much as you want, but all your skills are capped at 60 (out of a possible 100) unless you subscribe.

I think that could be a good idea, or something where the player has 1 mo free game time then he has to sub to continue or something....

Just some thoughts.

I like the one time fee to get a character off newbie island (people don't like subscriptions much anymore) but im not sure newbie island will be enough, not sure what it entails.

[Siegbert]

Mortal Online's model actually works pretty well (one of the few things they did right).

Does it? I thought they had a hard time getting their money... I at least didn't pay monthly fees there but I certainly would have if I thought the game was good enough which I didn't.

I'm generally unwilling to pay for a game on a monthly basis and I think many people are. The currently planned model seems to be right for me.

[Jezbelle]

I'm generally unwilling to pay for a game on a monthly basis and I think many people are.

Unless the game is great. And we have to assume that LIF MMO is going to be... why else would we be here? Plus, the trick would be to offer the game for FREE- if tons people could fully test the game, and realize what they are missing, a sub would then be guaranteed. Theoretically, the MMO will be like nothing the gaming community has ever seen.

People will whine and whine and SAY they won't pay a subscription. In the end, they always do, if that's the only way. Take WoW as evidence. It's still going strong. Nothings changed. You offer a unique product and people will pay the price to keep it.

Look, even I don't want to pay a subscription. I'm just trying to communicate what I know would be best for this game and the future of it's development.

[Jezbelle]

Oh, and how do we "know" that people are no longer willing to pay subscriptions? That's the most ludicrous idea that is floating around the internet today.

If people are still willing to pay for magazine subscriptions, they are also willing to pay for video game subscriptions.

Where's this "evidence" that people can no longer afford subscriptions? Lol. A few loud mouthed screamers on the forums?

[Siegbert]

Maybe they could afford it but if you're like me you don't have too much time at hand to play a couple of hours a day. I'm more likely to play a little on the weekends and I don't think I would get a comparable amount of joyful hours out of playing a game as a teenager who can afford to spend all his spare time on it would.

After some months you will have paid the equivalent of several games but not played it any more than others. I'm not willing to do so.

Unless the game is great.

Maybe... right now I don't have too much indication that it will be. While I really like the theoretical concept I'm yet to be convinced that the devs can deliver.

But no, actually I don't think my opinion would change if it was indeed the best game of all times. I don't play one game only and given that my play time is limited there might be periods of not playing LiF at all. Yet, I would still be paying unless I canceled the subscription which in turn would definitely stop me from playing because I needed to be sure that I'll be playing LiF straight on for at least a month to get my money worth.

So that's an unnecessary annoyance. Just make it buy2play and be done with it. Everybody will be happier.

[Kaltivel]

Sub Fee model is good for the developer/publisher, at first, and bad for the consumer; that means the players slowly but surely trickle off until eventually the game stops getting enough Sub Fees to stay live. Free To Play with an optional Sub Fee to get more game features? That's even worse.

I am unwilling to pay a monthly fee for any game. I don't care how great it is. Buy To Play and then having to purchase more character slots is the way to go. Any sort of monetization that involves locking features behind a Pay Wall like you suggested is blatantly against the point of the game; it's a true sandbox game, you should be able to do anything you want without having to pay real money for it.

The only way the optional Sub Fee works is if it gives the account an extra character slot or two that are only usable while Subbed and also gives that account a monthly allowance of "Premium Cash/Points" for the hinted at shop (that hopefully doesn't have Pay To Win stuff in it). That means the player has to Sub to unlock them and keep Subbing to use the characters in those slots.


If people have to buy the game and then have to pay a Sub Fee I have a feeling most will simply stick to Your Own or find a different game.

[Siegbert]

Buy To Play and then having to purchase more character slots is the way to go.

That's not quite what the plan is... it's rather free2test with major setbacks and pay once to transfer your character into the real game world.

[Elindor]

Siegbert I was kinda suggesting that LiF only partially copy MO's payment system....

I was suggesting maybe that they allow you to play the game without paying, but you are capped to where if you wanted to get seriously into it, you would pay - which is a good system...

However, I would not suggest a subscription necessarily, and instead do the $20 per character.

Basically only difference from what they are doing now is instead of the newbie island, the player could go anywhere and see and anything and be a part of the overall game, but just be capped...until they payed to "unlock" that character to progress more.

[Siegbert]

I guess it matters to what limit you set the cap in that case. Maybe 24h wipes for those characters wouldn't be such a bad idea afterall.

[Tymefor]

Oh, and how do we "know" that people are no longer willing to pay subscriptions? That's the most ludicrous idea that is floating around the internet today.

If people are still willing to pay for magazine subscriptions, they are also willing to pay for video game subscriptions.

Where's this "evidence" that people can no longer afford subscriptions? Lol. A few loud mouthed screamers on the forums?

Because of the poll on forums.....

granted it doesn't put subscription as an option but it has a pretty huge response for a small forum like this. So there are defiantly people that want a flat fee.

I would tend to suggest that because they want the fee they DONT want a subscription. but that's hard to tell.

important-poll-t632/

[Jezbelle]

Because of the poll on forums.....

Unfortunately this is not something that you can accurately poll. Nor does this poll have anything remotely to do with enforcing a subscription.

The closest you could possibly get would be a poll that asks: "Would you rather pay a subscription, or not being able to play LIF-MMO?"

[Toralar]

Nah, fuck that. How they've got it set up right now is a good plan.

[Dewderson]

I just registered to say no way, there's already people complaining the price for LiF: YO is too steep. Like seriously I've seen like 3 big Steam threads of people complaining and arguing with people who have bought the game, like the community managers post about people playing the MMO for free if they bought LiF: YO.

Also, just seeing the notice "A subscription fee is required to play" (Or anything subscription related) is an immediate turn off for most consumers, granted there are some who wouldn't be deterred, but seriously, you're basing your marketing idea on the smaller group of consumers that cave and pay, a good marketing strategy is one that appeals to EVERYBODY.

And the fact that you are using WoW as an example also weakens your argument. Blizzard paid top dollar for celeb promotions when the playerbase was on a decline, THEY CAVED, and made the game free to play until level 20. Mind you, on release you had to BUY the game and then pay the subscription, they threw that out even before the Free to Play concept, they milked their game for all it's worth.

People DO, pay for subscriptions; but for how long? I did pay a "subscription" for SWTOR, the 2 month subscription with no repeated billing after it went free to play, haven't touched the game since it expired, one less person for the playerbase. Kalt's opinion reflects my view entirely. I will NEVER continually pay for a game in order to play it competitively. If the LiF:MMO went subscription based I would refuse to buy it, simple as that, the concept that you buy a game and; or pay until you stop playing, and discontinue your payments is criminal.

Besides with a Free to Play Subscription scheme LiF would need a lot more stuff to make it appealing to even look at the subscription info.

Just because it works sometimes doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I disagree with this proposal 100%

[Rynea]

With every game that is out there that offers playing without a payment, we will see an ungodly amount of bots, scammers and just plain griefing people you cannot properly get rid of even with good GM support.

I don't want to get into a discussion really if subscription based or pay2play business models are better, but for me personally staying away from any kind of free 2 play model as far as possible will be very much preferred.

[Jezbelle]

Also, just seeing the notice "A subscription fee is required to play" (Or anything subscription related) is an immediate turn off for most consumers, granted there are some who wouldn't be deterred, but seriously, you're basing your marketing idea on the smaller group of consumers that cave and pay, a good marketing strategy is one that appeals to EVERYBODY.

I appreciate you posting, and welcome to the forums, but try reading the entire OP first next time before you respond. You didn't address half of the idea.

Nah, fuck that. How they've got it set up right now is a good plan.

People will say anything to keep this game from being subscription based. Again, just because they don't want to pay more does not mean that they won't if the game is good enough. I'm just looking out for the devs here- even I would rather buy then sub - its cheaper. But id rather that the devs make tons of money to re-invest back into this game.

[General-Zod]

If you give a sandbox game a themepark business model the game will die.

Hackers and Gold Sellers will have a field day with this game. I'm not saying that subscriptions mmo's don't have hackers and gold sellers... i'm simply saying that they have less because its much more costly to keep multiple accounts up over a long period of time.

[Jezbelle]

If you give a sandbox game a themepark business model the game will die.

There's no such thing as a themepark business model.

Hackers and Gold Sellers will have a field day with this game. I'm not saying that subscriptions mmo's don't have hackers and gold sellers... i'm simply saying that they have less because its much more costly to keep multiple accounts up over a long period of time.

What are you talking about...

[General-Zod]

There's no such thing as a themepark business model.

Largely, the BTP and FTT business model are associated with Themepark games. Thus, justifying my previous statement.

What are you talking about...

Hackers and Gold Sellers are known to have multiple accounts either to keep up with the demand or just incase they are found out. Having to buy the game and pay monthly fee to play takes money away from their business.

If its BTP or FTT they don't have to worry about this.

[Bran34]

Going to be honest, I would not pay subscription for this, or any other game. I think the current system is great. It's new, and it's something I don't have to pay for every month.

I would however agree that maybe being able to go to the mainland with a HUGE skillcap (like in wurm online) would be applicable though. Limiting you to certain skills, such as limiting access to wearing armor types and whatnot.

So, if you don't pay you can go to the mainland but while you're there you can only use padded armors and spears, and you can't get tier 3 skills past level 60.

In this manner, you can do all the things that a peasant would be able to do (and maybe more), and thus still being useful, but if you want to become able to be truly self-sufficient, you must pay to unlock the character.

Also, you could only do this for one character, so no endless free peasant alts.

[General-Zod]

So, if you don't pay you can go to the mainland but while you're there you can only use padded armors and spears, and you can't get tier 3 skills past level 60.

Ill agree with this only if the dev's make it where the non-paying players can't trade or drop items.

[Mtprimo]

Its a delicate theme

You see, if you have a monthly subscription, you'll have less players (than you would have being BTP or FTP) but more content and more quality and aswell a good player base, with more additions and whatsoevers.

IF you have a buy-to-play, you'll have more players than PTP but less than FTP, having a loyal player base, but relying on expansions for contents and to prevent the game getting boring and losing the player base

If you have a free-to-play, you'll have more players, but you'll have less control, relying on cash itens, like cosmetics or even a golden pickaxe that cut mountains with 1 sec cooldown.

On my personal opinion, i would go for BTP, GW2 its a great example and still up there with a good and loyal player base. As we can say the same for WoW, which gets an even higher player base because of the innovation it made 10 years ago. On the other end, we can see TERA, who was paid, and got FTP with cash itens. A good game, but didnt made out.

This choice is important and must really be worked and processed along the testing phase. The model with character purchase looks very good, lets hope it will work.