Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Riven311]

lots to ask!

Any person who donates more than 50€ will receive the following:
whats that in the US Dollar? next theres servers in the US?

• Access to all stages of Alpha and Beta testing!
do we get full game when the beta is done?

• A sum of premium in game currency in later stages of testing, and in the release!
really don't need to ask noting here lol

that's... all I really have to ask.. I love to play this game heck I love to be part of this game

[Valdin]

Currently 50e is $68.66 and will fluctuate a little depending on when you buy into the game.

US servers to date have not been determined. Bobik was working on finding a host in North America. The Alpha and Beta server are located in Europe. (Don't quote me but I believe Poland)

And yes anyone that donates will be given access to the full game upon release. As of right now there is no 'purchase' price for the game. The way the game works is that you will pay to move your character from the tutorial island to the main land. There has been no definitive answer on if we will receive and bonus their. I would assume we will pay that price as any other player.

Edit: Currently it is $1.37 to 1 Euro

[Thokan]

The servers are in Germany.

[Archaegeo]

I had no problem or lag I could tell Friday playing from NJ in US, though of course we didn't do any combat on Friday.

[Riven311]

like to give this post a more up to date bump. like to know if they have more servers and if the cost is about the same?

[Wolfhelm]

I think ill piggyback this with a queston of my own...

when will the alpha servers be up 24/7, as I have a hectic rl scedual, and would love to test it, but cant gaurentee any times soon...

[MachineMedic]

when will the alpha servers be up 24/7

They will remain up when they stop crashing every 20 seconds, no sooner.

[Dracathio]

Edit: Currently it is $1.37 to 1 Euro

So pretty much BING is out of date by about 3 cents?

Because from what I gathered the best bet for anyone in the US for donation is $68 [because 50 Euro is a bit under $68 but still over $67]

1 Euro = $1.34
1 USD = .75 Euro

and sorry I don't have a Euro sign on this keyboard [but I could put it in through the use of ALT + num pad]

[MachineMedic]

The conversion rate changes from minute to minute, the only way you're going to get an accurate conversion is if you check the current spot/ratio.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=50+euro+to+USD

Besides, who cares about $1.00 of difference anyways? Don't be a dirty peasant.

[Baelgor]

like to know if they have more servers and if the cost is about the same?

NA Servers mabe in later development stages. What do you mean with "cost"? Donation will be 50€ to get in to early alpha / beta, not more, not less.

Besides, who cares about $1.00 of difference anyways? Don't be a dirty peasant.

[Riven311]

lol no I was asking once more. the date of my 1st post was on 03 Mar 2014, 23:00. some times things have new info what...nearly 3 months? its all cool really. moer I read the forums the more I hear that the lag is some what ok here in the USA.

going to have to see what I have on paypal today see if I cant join in now.

[Rhade]

It's strange how people are saying that you can play from North America on a German server when the combat isn't really actually fully integrated into the game yet.

I highly doubt a manual aiming combat system is going to work well with upwards of 130 latency.

Playing M&B:Warband on an international competitive level, I'm here to tell you that when we played in the Nation's Cup versus the Europeans, 99% of the time, whoever had the home server won the match. The fact is, in a game like this with manual targeting, latency that large is going to be a massive factor. Frankly, it's the main reason I'm hesitant to buy into the pre-alpha as well.

All that to say, I pray the game launches smoothly and we end up seeing a North American server. If not, best of luck to you guys over in Europe, the game seems promising.

[Siegbert]

That would be true if LiF would be as fast as M&B which I doubt will be the case.

[Thokan]

It's strange how people are saying that you can play from North America on a German server when the combat isn't really actually fully integrated into the game yet.

I highly doubt a manual aiming combat system is going to work well with upwards of 130 latency.

Playing M&B:Warband on an international competitive level, I'm here to tell you that when we played in the Nation's Cup versus the Europeans, 99% of the time, whoever had the home server won the match. The fact is, in a game like this with manual targeting, latency that large is going to be a massive factor. Frankly, it's the main reason I'm hesitant to buy into the pre-alpha as well.

All that to say, I pray the game launches smoothly and we end up seeing a North American server. If not, best of luck to you guys over in Europe, the game seems promising.

Yes, yes. We have all played M&B. The difference is that this is a MMO and not a dedicated server game.

That combat of LiF won't be based on low ping as is the case in M&B.

[Rhade]

Again, we are definitely not entitled to a server over here at all (although I hope it does happen, of course) and I'm hoping the game does well, but these two responses puzzle me:

Spoiler

Yes, yes. We have all played M&B. The difference is that this is a MMO and not a dedicated server game.

That combat of LiF won't be based on low ping as is the case in M&B.

Spoiler

That would be true if LiF would be as fast as M&B which I doubt will be the case.

Because it is an MMO and not a round based dedicated server doesn't change anything. You're still sending packets to a server and distance increases latency dramatically -- MMO, RTS, FPS or any other game type all suffer from this. There is literally no "difference", latency does not discriminate between game types, and to your comparison: an MMO is simply an extremely large dedicated server (or cluster of servers) that are on for extended periods of time that handle a lot more persistent data, so nothing is changed by the fact that LiF is an MMO when it comes to combat.

M&B is not even "fast" -- Quake is fast, Shootmania is fast, Tribes is fast. M&B is not, and it even has a "slow" setting, which I've seen used at higher latency as well, and even with that, a high ping is still a pretty major disadvantage at any kind of competitive level. I've seen it time and time and time again that when you go over ~105 latency, your hope of remaining competitive takes a massive blow, unfortunately, unless you are playing tetris or minesweeper. A big draw about games like these is that oftentimes combat has risk: gear loss, holding loss, etc. and I know it's going to be a hard sell to expect people to lose time invested largely because latency.

So, once more, I'm watching the game with anticipation and high hopes, I think LiF has a lot of potential and a lot of us can see that. I applaud the dev team for being brave enough to be ambitious enough to make the kind of game I think we all wish we could make. But I just can't agree with the sentiment of "you'll have high ping and it will be just fine in this manual targeting MMO." and I'm not sure if it's entirely fair to say when people are talking about throwing around close to $70, I think it is. I personally would feel much more comfortable giving money towards the game if I knew we could count on a NA server for the MMO version.

[Thokan]

You miss the point entirely.

It is a MMO and not a low ping centered game depending on dedicated servers. The combat is designed from that standpoint, naturally.

It is crippling to try comparing it to M&B just because it looks the same. The fact that you use your mouse has no bearing on how latency-dependent the combat will be.

[Siegbert]

There is literally no "difference"

Well, the difference according to Bobik is that hits are registered server side, not client side which should equalize the playing ground.

[Rhade]

You're right, I don't see the point you're making.

You're saying it's an MMO and not a game on dedicated servers.
An MMO is one or multiple dedicated servers clustered together.

You keep trying to act like an MMO and a "dedicated server game" are different when they're literally the same exact thing from a technical standpoint. One may be used for CS and one for WoW but they both are dedicated servers.

No game is "low ping centered." Rather, latency governs the time it takes for information to flow between client and server, be it an MMO or not, and that's naturally going to give a large edge to someone who has less delay so low ping is always going to be preferred when gaming in any kind of real time situation, much life Life is Feudal's combat system is going to be.

I'm not comparing it to M&B because it looks the same. I'm comparing it because I have extensive experience in high level competitive play there and I'm also working on my Computer Science major, so between the two I have a pretty good background to say that it's a fair comparison from a technical standpoint: Distance effects latency, latency effects response time, which largely effects things like manual combat of any sort in any kind of game or genre, be it an MMO, FPS, RTS on a dedicated server or a non-dedicated server.

I'm not missing the point, I'm making it very plain and very constructively.

There is literally no "difference"

Well, the difference according to Bobik is that hits are registered server side, not client side which should equalize the playing ground.

Server-side registration is actually pretty normal to deter client-side tampering / cheating, so it's nothing new. If I live in Texas and hit player B, that information needs to be sent to the server in Germany to be processed which takes me 125 ms, while player B lives in Berlin and his information gets sent to the server at a rate of 20 ms, that's a massive advantage.

Again, I'm not saying anything negative about the game itself. It just seems like the community is massively underestimating the ability of players' ability to play manual targeting games from other continents. Great game, I just, again, hope for a NA server and would feel much more comfortable donating if it were confirmed to be in the works.

[Siegbert]

I guess it will have some effect but in M&B I was able to play on a NA and EU server (Persistent World mod) about as good since I think combat speed was toned down a bit.

[MachineMedic]

I wouldn't be worried too much about latency in this game.

Most games released after about 2006-2008 utilize server-side combat mechanics... particularly FPS and MMO titles. In most cases, combat computations are not even handled by the game client.

If a game is designed properly with a permanent or switchable Unlagged mode, then the client will simply send periodic packets to the server containing the client's point of view, any attacks being performed, and any movements being issued by the player. When the server receives these packets, it calculates the current latency between itself and the player, and calculates/checks for any hitscans or projectile collisions at the respective time index in it's own log of the gameplay. It then deals damage and updates player positions, sends a response packet back to the client containing updated information about everything going on in the game, and the client will then update it's own virtual portrayal of the game world.

This is how most well-built FPS games work, anyways.

[Jezbelle]

Rhade sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

It's been a concern of mine for a while. /prayin for NA down the line

[Rhade]

@Machine

I get it. But, the problem that you glossed over is that even though calculations are done server side, the information still needs to get there to be calculated and, with the extreme distance, those calculations will be done with one side of the equation getting there at a much higher rate.

Let's use a made-up example:

I live in California, you live in France, the server is located in France.

I walk in the room on my screen, see you, shoot you.

At the very same moment, you walk around a corner and we see each other at the same time, and you fire as well.

The server won't know I fired for 130 ms, whereas it will know you fired 20 ms from you seeing it happening. It can't calculate what it doesn't know, and it has no idea I've even acted so it takes your information, deals the damage to me, and I'm dead by the time my information gets there, so even though in real-time I reacted faster, I now lose all my gear, and in some cases a whole clan can lose holdings if it's NA vs Euro and one has home-turf servers.

This isn't just going to happen in the case of "who saw who first," but it's huge in things like feints, reacting to movement and moment-to-moment decision making when you're always trying to play catch up because your information isn't as up-to-date as who you're up against. A difference between 30 and 60 is one thing, but playing with something like 120 gets ridiculously one sided in my experience.

We literally tried a tournament 4 years in a row called Nation's Cup and I've been there every year. North America entered a tournament every year, and we had to go to home/away systems because server choice was such a dominant factor. 99% of the time, when a NA team played a European team, the team with the home-server won, and Warband isn't an extremely fast game, it's just a manual game.

@Jez

I'm not a wizard. I've just been around these sorts of games for quite a while now, probably close to 5 years, and have been playing them at very high levels. Which is why it confuses me so much to see other gamers insist playing on a German server from North America is just magically going to work out just fine for anything other than crafting, chatting and gathering resources.

I'm hoping for the NA server(s) as well, along with everyone I game with. I know a lot of my crew has taken the hard stance of no until, as one of them put it so well earlier, "I'll get interested when they can commit to a North American server." I want to get people involved over here in NA, I want to get them excited and get them to buy in and invest financially as well as with word-of-mouth, but I keep running into that wall which is, admittedly, completely fair. I just want that to be fairly understood and openly discussed instead of, "no, 115 ping will be just fine," because I know that's not going to cut it and I want to see the game do well.

[Jezbelle]

I just want that to be fairly understood and openly discussed instead of, "no, 115 ping will be just fine," because I know that's not going to cut it and I want to see the game do well.

There's not much to discuss. The game is simply not made for north americans currently. Nothing wrong with that though! If they make money with this in europe, expansion is certainly their next step.

I would disagree with you that this is a reason to withhold a donation. In fact I think it is all the more appropriate to show our support now with monetary donations in their time of need. The developers really went out on a limb for us. And when I say "us", i mean all of us niche gamers around the world who share a similar appetite for this genre. They are not discriminating against north americans, they just lack funding. When you donate to anyone, it's because you believe in what the person/group is trying to do; and in this case, your donation will at least go towards strengthening the currently uncertain future of hard-core medieval sandbox MMOs. Like someone mentioned recently in another thread, if every member on this site like you donated, this game would have been done already, with multiple servers in the U.S.!

If anything, donate (if you feel as strongly as the rest of us), but then don't play the game if you're opposed to initially playing with a combat disadvantage.

[Rhade]

I see that line of reasoning, but $70 is very steep to take the approach of donating it and not having a fair expectation of being able to feasibly play it at a reasonable point, wouldn't you agree?

[Jezbelle]

There are many ways to play the game. And there's never a reason to fight fairly. Make money, build a castle, outnumber your enemy, play it safe. For us N.A. donators, it's the best prospective game on the horizon right now even with this slight disadvantage. It's something we've been waiting years for, if we've known it or not.

[Brigadierjones]

The servers are not on for long enough for you too even worry about having any sort of ping issues if i were based in the us id just wait. Ive been in the alpha for a few months and i have maybe an hour of test time done ive reported a couple of bugs that i saw and they ve been fixed that's about all.Its not currently a game so don't expect to be doing much apart from digging,jumping making a few tools maybe a house if your lucky but that's really about it. Im not trying to say anything bad about the game or dev s as they really are great plus they listen which most don't and trying their best to make this game utterly amazing which it will be in time but if your having doubts then just don't bother carry on playing what your playing and check in on the forums till release of lif yo.