Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Xiravian]

Ive never ever asked for a refund but in this case i feel let down, now i understood the game is in alpha but when it takes a long time to get into it, which isn't my initial problem, but the fact it crashes so much that the game it can't be played, its a hardcore gathering and building game with combat, but when it crashes all your progress gets deleted, making you start over and over having to re-lvl abilities that require quite some grinding i felt robbed of my money, again i fully understood it's in alpha but if i have to start over and over because it crashes the games fundamentals cannot be played and making you unable to progress in any way, that is why i respectfully ask for a refund, it felt like i bought something i couldn't even play.

Sincerely,

martenvk

I do wish to add, that it applies to local law in my country that i do have a right for a working product which this clearly wasn't, as ive stated before i knew it was an alpha but i expected to atleast be function to a certain point where i'd be able to play it, not that it would crash and reset everytime, afteral you wouldn't keep a newly bought vacuum cleaner that would clean for a few minutes then cough all the dust back up forcing you to start over now would you?


here is a link to the policy http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen ... oduct.html

[SESIOM]

I play in a dedicated Spanish server, right now it crashes 2-3 times per day. Wich I think its reasonable for alpha progress.

The character data skill and everything in the server stays at it is. No need to start over.

There is a lot of alpha games without 1/100 of the content that this one delivers so early.
You should look for a decent server to play on.

[IzznO]

Im sorry, but im pretty shure those kinds of laws is for finished and sold as completed products. First of all you have invested money to see this project be the besti t can be with additional funds, and in return for your investment you get the full finished game when its completed and you also get the option to test the game in its current state. The game is broken atm, in its current dev cycle, so you basicly get what you pay for, so, that means you have no case when arguing a refund for a faulty product when that is what you bought. Thats why i chuccle a little when ppl wants refund claiming faulty products when its sold as a faulty product from the get go.

Most are annoyed at the crashes and freezez and some core features we like to have, like several claims on houses and gates, but you either continue playing and reporting bugs, or you wait a few months and come back.

But you are not intitled to any refunds untill the game is finished and still behaves like it does today, sorry my friend

[Porave]

Ive never ever asked for a refund but in this case i feel let down, now i understood the game is in alpha but when it takes a long time to get into it, which isn't my initial problem, but the fact it crashes so much that the game it can't be played, its a hardcore gathering and building game with combat, but when it crashes all your progress gets deleted, making you start over and over having to re-lvl abilities that require quite some grinding i felt robbed of my money, again i fully understood it's in alpha but if i have to start over and over because it crashes the games fundamentals cannot be played and making you unable to progress in any way, that is why i respectfully ask for a refund, it felt like i bought something i couldn't even play.

Sincerely,

martenvk

I do wish to add, that it applies to local law in my country that i do have a right for a working product which this clearly wasn't, as ive stated before i knew it was an alpha but i expected to atleast be function to a certain point where i'd be able to play it, not that it would crash and reset everytime, afteral you wouldn't keep a newly bought vacuum cleaner that would clean for a few minutes then cough all the dust back up forcing you to start over now would you?


here is a link to the policy http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen ... oduct.html

Only to say this, or law is invalid. And thats because you paid it true steam and on steam it is saying alpha and u accepted steam policy. When you paid for the game. So a refund you can probably forget. Its steam policy

And if i may say. You paid for a early apha why complane and not sent your crash reports to the developors. In that whay the can fix your problem also for ather players here. My game crashs evry 20 minuts and i sent my crash reports to Mantis and the are working on my nvidia problem.

Greets Porave

[Saxxon]

https://support.steampowered.com/

[Xiravian]

Ironicly steam sent me here, and yes i know it's an alpha, i believe i stated that, i have played alpha's before and i didn't mind it, but the crashing makes me unable to play completely, and yes the law does apply, i gave an example in my previous post, you wouldn't keep a new phone which has an OS that keeps crashing making you unable to use that phone, even if an OS is a constantly updating piece of software.

[Zhalls]

The problem I've seen is that a lot of people are hosting servers on garbage hosts or insufficient personal rigs. While there are efficiency issues associated with an alpha release (duh), the root of your problem is the server you're playing on which relies heavily on a number of factors. I run a number of servers for instance and the only time we've ever crashed is when I give it my daily reboot.

My suggestion to you is that you wait until the official beta release before you start really digging in with your complaints. Asking for a refund now is a bit pre-mature. This is a truly revolutionary game that deserves a bit of patience while we traverse through alpha.

EDIT: also, please read this. it's the disclaimer that comes with the game that you're supposed to read PRIOR to purchasing.

Why Early Access?

“DO NOT BUY this game unless you want to support the development of something really new and original in the sandbox genre. You will encounter bugs along with various other issues in playtesting. This is Early Access Alpha and your support, understanding and becoming involved with the development process will be something remembered as we move on towards the Beta stage and then on to the final Release version.

We want your feedback and support with the testing and balancing of our current systems. Gameplay improving suggestions are strongly encouraged and direct interaction with the dev team will be a normal part of the development cycles.

We have communicated clearly that the game is not in a finished state, but you can judge for yourself that we have more gameplay content than most games that consider themselves a released final product.

Unlimited terraforming combined with a free building system, innovative combat formation systems, physics based melee combat, alchemy, skill cap and stat cap systems. We think by playing you will begin to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes with creative and exciting gameplay opportunities.

Thank you in advance! You’re awesome and without you this gaming opportunity would not have been developed!”

How long will this game be in Early Access?

“If the goals in the Alpha and Beta development cycles are met we plan to release the final product Q3 2015.”

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?


“We plan to have fully implemented and balanced skills and abilities from the skill book including secondary and minor skills. We also plan to deliver rock solid stability with the client and server code in the Release version.

NO, we WILL NOT abandon this project! Actually this project will evolve into a full scale Sandbox MMORPG of which we are already running pre-alpha testing at this time.”

What is the current state of the Early Access version?

“We have almost all primary crafting skills and abilities implemented and even some secondary skills and abilities available now. All basic combat skills and even some advanced features of combat are working currently. Some abilities have yet to be implemented and will require extensive testing as they affect combat balancing and overall gameplay quality.”

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?

“Currently we plan only event based discounts during Early Access with increasing the price on Release once the game has all features implemented and better overall quality.”
How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?“

1. Actively submitting bug and crash reports
2. General gameplay suggestions and improvements
3. Giving us a morale boost from your kind words or a kick in the pants from constructive criticism”

[Paint]

Why is the progress lost if you crash ? Just dont create your own server, join another one and you wont get a Refund,that policy doesnt applies to steam, and yes in the case of the phone it gets refunded but not here because you accepted the steam policy and it isnt even a finished Product. Its like you prebought a new phone, and after you got youre first preview of the Phone, you want a refund.


And in this part:

u er niet mee kunt doen wat de verkoper of fabrikant heeft gezegd.

The Product can anything the Seller told you, he told you that the Game isnt finished and there will be plenty of bugs.
Funny though these 20 guys a day who really think the life´s a Ponystation.

[Siegbert]

Never crashes for me... why don't you just wait until it's more stable?

Having said that: it's an alpha and crashes are to be expected. Deal with it.

[Balagor]

the fact it crashes so much that the game it can't be played, its a hardcore gathering and building game with combat, but when it crashes all your progress gets deleted, making you start over and over having to re-lvl abilities that require quite some grinding i felt robbed of my money, again i fully understood it's in alpha but if i have to start over and over because it crashes the games fundamentals cannot be played and making you unable to progress in any way, that is why i respectfully ask for a refund, it felt like i bought something i couldn't even play.

What the fuck are you talking about your progress gets deleted...?

Join a server, I don't know what the hell you have been playing...

[Tajin]

Alpha versions are per definition not considered as "playable public releases". They exist mostly for testing/bugfixing purpose, crashes and other problems are to be expected.


So instead of asking for a refund in a forum (which isn't the right way to do it anyway), report your crashes and problems so they can be fixed and/or search the forums for possible solutions.


Some crashes are related to specific hardware components or depend on your settings – so more often than not, there are ways to deal with them.

[Flashmek]

anything you sign with pre alpha is a no go with refunds, it clearly states to you that there will be issues big and small and this is basically you just backing the development of a game.

like me i see whats going on, hate having to deal with crashes and bugs and know it will probably spoil the end game for me so i stalk the forums and wait patiently for either a stable version or less issues before i buy into it as i dont really have alot of money at the moment.

i suggest you do not buy into pre - alpha games if you do not have the money spare or you make sure you do your research and make sure you know what your buying into, people have posted tons of issues for you to see and judge if this would bother you.

i think people dont understand the point of a pre alpha game, i recently bought into a far more expensive game that just got released and then spent the better part of a month having 6 - 8 hour que time to get into the game ( as i work the availability for me to actually have 6 - 8 hours to que before i play was not even possible).

that is when you would have a case to ask for a refund because it was a fully released game then.

overall i know this is not what you want to hear and by your later posts its clear you just want a refund regardless if your right or wrong.

so best of luck

flash

[Tigger]

You might know it's an alpha, but you clearly don't understand what that means.

If you but a engine-less and wheel-less car that is advertised as an engine-less and wheel-less car, will you ask for a refund and want to return it because it doesn't drive?

[Viik]

Refunding something that you bought on Steam and launched at least ones is really hard. Regardless if the game even started or not. Even if it's not Early Access.
I don't think developers can help you here as Steam is a distributor which is legally responsible for returns. I hope that your investment will pay off in half a year and game will be substantially better.

[WDMeaun]

Well, for one.. I think a refund will not be possible, unless the team of Life is Feudal will decide to do so.
(No idea wether they can actually refund, as it's all through Steam).
- Be warned when asking for refunds from Steam. (they wont refund an early access game, because of game breaking bugs)

Your problem is that your character is not saved.. the whole 'singleplayer' / "create a game" part.. is best to be avoided at the time being.
(I suspect several OS incompatibilities to be existing).

My only crashes (and plenty of them) were when I tried to create a game, or host my own server.
These however.. were quite easily debugged by me.

I'd say.. if you like the idea behind LiF, which you probably do, else you wouldn't have bought it..
Try finding a online server to play on.. It does not crash quite as frequently (I never crashed on another server) and everything should be saved.

Refunds and Steam.. It's better not to try, honestly.

[Xiravian]

I did join servers actualy. and it seemed fien at first though abit sluggish, i gradualy started crashing more, and it shouldn't be graphic related ive got a AMD radeon R7 200 Series, (2gig)

[FrostyMug]

I would say you agreed to the unfinishedness of the product by purchasing a Alpha version of the game and if I was The company I would stick to my guns and give absolutly no refunds since the warning was given and agreed to.

[Haladmer]

I did join servers actualy. and it seemed fien at first though abit sluggish, i gradualy started crashing more, and it shouldn't be graphic related ive got a AMD radeon R7 200 Series, (2gig)

To be fair, hardware you have installed can still be related or even the cause of the problem, regardless of how new or expensive. Seems recently the newer the card the more likely it is to have an issue even in more established games...

Video drivers from both AMD and NVidia tend to be for groups of hardware, not a single driver for specific cards, and given the range in hardware failure tolerance in the specific hardware group, any single defect (such as single memory sector being bad/dead) which does not force a rejection of the device from being sold can be a factor.

Driver corrections/updates tend to build in more support for specific card settings and configurations which make these "one off" failures less of an impact, but even a "perfect" card/driver combo can still be the problem if the OS is updated and changes the resources that the driver is using.

All that said, yes, the game could very well be the source of the problem, but like a discussion, it takes multiple participants. If you send in your crash logs, it makes it easier/more likely for Bobik and team to fix the source of the problem from their side, or to make allowances in their code for the parts that are not actually due to their game.

[Xiravian]

Ive sent every crash report i had in.

[Azzerhoden]

I was experiencing several hard crashes, as well as video card driver crashes. I then updated my video card drivers (which I had thought were supposed to auto-update), and the crashing ceased.

I now leave my client up all day when at work, on a private GoDaddy VPS server running on 2 gig of memory (animal count at 50), and neither the server, or my client seems to have any issues.

[Haladmer]

Ive sent every crash report i had in.

Just realized you said r7 200... Heard there were weird issues with that series so did a quick websearch for it.

The search turned up that it might be something related to OpenGL, as a couple of people mentioned having performance issues with that series of cards in OpenGL games (one issue related to that card was in Second Life thought to be potentially related to the texture memory (vram) limits. Add in the card's lower performance under OpenGL, might be something worth looking into.

The person experiencing the problem was having random black screens/crashes/slow video performance.

Also, there is also a known issue with video card detection being looked into already (http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/default-video-card-t3707/) so while it is a different card set, might still be associated, but I'll leave it to the staff help on the details.

Either way, hope you're able to get the problem fixed quickly!

[Cndo]

I started reading through your topic and noticed like others that you mention your progress resets. This is only an issue if you are running a server off your computer, and not a dedicated server.

Running off your PC can give you a single play experience, but unless it is dedicated when you crash, your server goes down. When you start it up, you open a new server every time.

TLDR;
You are playing off your own server so if you crash you lose everything. Join a server with others, live as a hermit and I Guarantee your stuff and stats will save.

EDIT:
Just noticed 2 pages in your realized that. NVM

[Xiravian]

Well that's the thing, my grpahics card is up to date, any chance it might just not be compatable yet?

[Prive]

Did you not read anything on the store page?

[Haladmer]

Well that's the thing, my grpahics card is up to date, any chance it might just not be compatable yet?

Always a chance, but only the dev team would know for sure. On that note, while I assume you have, just want to make sure you checked out Arrakis09's post about card issues? (http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/video-card-issue-read-here-t3748/)

If so, after using the mantis link to provide your recent crash logs, maybe reach out to the admin/dev team directly and they should be able to let you know if it is being looked into yet or not. Seeing as they are commenting/posting on a few card related issues, they may have it on their radar, but just not able to narrow this specific issue down yet.

Bobik and team are usually really responsive on major issues (hell I've seen them flip minor issues in minutes/hours when given to information to find/verify it quickly), but with the increase of people from steam, might take them a bit longer to get back to you.

Again though, hope they have good news for you (and everyone else having game related problems) soon.

[Thylbanus]

Ive never ever asked for a refund but in this case i feel let down, now i understood the game is in alpha but when it takes a long time to get into it, which isn't my initial problem, but the fact it crashes so much that the game it can't be played, its a hardcore gathering and building game with combat, but when it crashes all your progress gets deleted, making you start over and over having to re-lvl abilities that require quite some grinding i felt robbed of my money, again i fully understood it's in alpha but if i have to start over and over because it crashes the games fundamentals cannot be played and making you unable to progress in any way, that is why i respectfully ask for a refund, it felt like i bought something i couldn't even play.

Sincerely,

martenvk

I do wish to add, that it applies to local law in my country that i do have a right for a working product which this clearly wasn't, as ive stated before i knew it was an alpha but i expected to atleast be function to a certain point where i'd be able to play it, not that it would crash and reset everytime, afteral you wouldn't keep a newly bought vacuum cleaner that would clean for a few minutes then cough all the dust back up forcing you to start over now would you?


here is a link to the policy http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen ... oduct.html

Good luck. You went to them. They didn't come to you. YOU have to learn the laws governing RUSSIAN commerce. There was a VERY public statement that stated you are supporting development of the game. I'll quote it for you:

DO NOT BUY this game unless you want to support the development of something really new and original in the sandbox genre. You will encounter bugs along with various other issues in playtesting. This is Early Access Alpha and your support, understanding and becoming involved with the development process will be something remembered as we move on towards the Beta stage and then on to the final Release version.

You fail to read what you purchase, you probably woun't have much luck getting a refund. Quoting your countries laws is really just a douche move. We all know you have no intention of actually pursuing it, since it will cost you FAR more than the $35-$40 you spent.

[Ontrose]

Hello,
I think the "refund" thing is from the table for you. I dont think you can convince steam (which is distributing the game right now).

About the crashes: I got the same graphic card as you've got, and no real issue here. Got the latest drivers and checked your ingame options etc?

About progress: Most servers save the progress in 15min intervalls, so even if the SERVER (not your own game!) crashes, you lose maximum of 15min gameplay. (statswise). If your running your own "server" to go for the game alone, you have to write that auto save mechanism yourself (as far as i know). Since i dont know much about scripting or MYSQL, i cant really say much about it.

About servers: The stability of the server, got a huge range from nearly unplayable to nearly perfect, always depending on the host. Bluefang solutions and Nitrado should be fine, same goes for the offical servers.
Still, the thing is: Try to find a server with about 30-40 players Max (crashes get more frequently if there are too many ppl online).
Same goes for "animals". Search a server with 50 or less animals and a decent Breeding/growth time. Since it always SPIKES (not crashes, but you might get kicked due to short time overloads) when all stuff growth/get spawned again.

At least, that is the stuff i watch out for, and since then i got a server with avarage about 40 ppl on, and running rather smoothly. Got a DC about once every 3h (on sunrise, when stuff spawns/is growing).

> Check your drivers!
> Choose your servers wisely!
then a rather good experience can be made with this game.

At least i would pay double amount of money without hesitation since im waiting for somethin like this, when UO slowly died.

Best regards,
Ontrose

P.s. really, check the server Infos! it helps a lot

[Monokoi]

... afteral you wouldn't keep a newly bought vacuum cleaner that would clean for a few minutes then cough all the dust back up forcing you to start over now would you? ...

You have not bought a simple vacuum cleaner, you've purchased a prototyp and a very early one, too. One that will be updated over and over until it has reached a stage to where it will be released as a finished product. You've forfeited all the usual consumer rights upon purchasing an alpha version, in layman's terms: an unfinished product.

You don't have the right to squat, except receiving the product in its current state with all its attributes and flaws.

Maybe you should study conditions thoroughly, before you make your purchase.

[Uno]

not sure why the community should care that you (rather than anyone else) want a refund, especially when your demand is based on false assumptions and the lies you wrote in your OP, like that the game crashes too much to be played and that progress isn't saved.

[Jjmc00]

geez stop whining, it's an alpha game and you basically signed a waiver knowing that beforehand.