Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Velius]

You can all argue in circles for as long as you want.

The facts are:

1. At present there is little if any reason to play the game unless you give up and join a guild and become their slave.

2. There is no room for overall game or individule character growth if all there is to do is become a guild bot.

Right there! There's the problem right there. You seem to be under this assumption that joining a guild means you will be bossed around and lose any and all ability to play what you want. That's far from how the game works. Yes, right now with the game just releasing everyone needs to chip in to terraform, gather, etc to get the settlement established, but people already realize this and as a result are by and large willing to chip in, especially since they would have to do the same thing on their own.

If that is your opinion of guilds and how they work, and that you will have no personal freedom or choice, then you need to quit joining those types of guilds. There are a multitude of guilds that are friendly communities of people who spend their playtime talking, joking around, and making the time spent preparing the town go by much faster than if they were to do the same activities on their own to prepare their personal areas. The end result is more work gets done faster and there are more resources and amenities for you to use.

Hell we've had solo players, small groups of friends, and even two group of 8 people join up, one of which does not even speak English, and they do the same thing they've always done and play with each other. Only now they are contributing to a community that will provide food for them, provide all the buildings and profession resources they could ever want, and who will band together and protect each other if we are attacked. The main difference for them now aside from having far more people to talk to is that now they can focus on a profession they want to play without having to take every skill under the sun just to try and maintain their characters on their own.

Now not only can they play the professions and skills they want, they can take them to 100 skill level. They will be able to earn massive amounts of coin selling their wares in the guild trading post when it is established. They won't have to keep looking over their shoulder for a roving band of griefers to ride them down and slaughter them at any moment. All in all, pretty sweet deal.

Guilds in this game are not the problem. The perception, assumption, and sweeping generalization of guilds in this game is the problem.

[Rhade]

You can all argue in circles for as long as you want.

The facts are:

1. At present there is little if any reason to play the game unless you give up and join a guild and become their slave.

2. There is no room for overall game or individule character growth if all there is to do is become a guild bot.

Right there! There's the problem right there. You seem to be under this assumption that joining a guild means you will be bossed around and lose any and all ability to play what you want. That's far from how the game works. Yes, right now with the game just releasing everyone needs to chip in to terraform, gather, etc to get the settlement established, but people already realize this and as a result are by and large willing to chip in, especially since they would have to do the same thing on their own.

If that is your opinion of guilds and how they work, and that you will have no personal freedom or choice, then you need to quit joining those types of guilds. There are a multitude of guilds that are friendly communities of people who spend their playtime talking, joking around, and making the time spent preparing the town go by much faster than if they were to do the same activities on their own to prepare their personal areas. The end result is more work gets done faster and there are more resources and amenities for you to use.

Hell we've had solo players, small groups of friends, and even two group of 8 people join up, one of which does not even speak English, and they do the same thing they've always done and play with each other. Only now they are contributing to a community that will provide food for them, provide all the buildings and profession resources they could ever want, and who will band together and protect each other if we are attacked. The main difference for them now aside from having far more people to talk to is that now they can focus on a profession they want to play without having to take every skill under the sun just to try and maintain their characters on their own.

Now not only can they play the professions and skills they want, they can take them to 100 skill level. They will be able to earn massive amounts of coin selling their wares in the guild trading post when it is established. They won't have to keep looking over their shoulder for a roving band of griefers to ride them down and slaughter them at any moment. All in all, pretty sweet deal.

Guilds in this game are not the problem. The perception, assumption, and sweeping generalization of guilds in this game is the problem.

Right there! That's the problem.

Thinking that the teams and crews we've put together over the last 5 or 10 years -- if we aren't 10 at the moment -- we need to throw the cohesion and chemistry we've worked so hard to maintain into question, just to have a chance to claim land. Games are fleeting, they come and go, but the things we build that transcend games -- these groups -- do not.

My clan, we've played plenty of games. We are very picky about who we recruit. Our cohesion is unparalleled and that comes from years of playing together at a high level. We have no interest of playing with random people or having them assume they're going to somehow have input on how we operate or the idea of sovereignty over us in any form or fashion, especially when we've dismantled groups in the past for that very assumption. There are a lot of groups that don't like mixing with random people. Free time is not an easy resource for most people, so making the assumption that you need to submit to playing with strangers you don't necessarily like is going to turn quite a lot of people away.

The requirement should not be numbers, the requirement should be, is it possible. Players should have the freedom to *try* to do things and allow for different playstyles. This game can be heavily influenced by skilled and well organized small groups.

I can understand the skillcap and the idea that specialization is important, but the prevailing sentiment that small clans are inherently bad is flawed.

If it's truly a sandbox, there should be no hard-coded quantity requirements on claims or anything else guild-related. Just like an economy is best dealt with, let the players set the pace and what's possible.

[GeordieMarv]

OK.
So my 6x6 claim has upgraded and it is indeed 3600 points a day to maintain that...wow...just wow.

Bearing in mind it took me about 3 hours to obtain 400 coins by logging. And when sacrificed to the claim that gave me 2 real days. 2...for a 6x6 claim.

So every 2 days I have to spend 3 hours logging to keep a simple 6x6 claim going. Where as for a guild it would be 72 points and take about 3 logs which would take about 10 minutes to maintain that.

Are you guys serious?

3 hours v 10 minutes? What a bloody joke. Impossible to manage. I would spend more of the time that I have to play selling shit to pay for the claim. What time would I have left to actually enjoy playing the game? Learning skills (to be able to sell anything other than logs), building my house, exploring.

It really Is laughable. Unless this changes there is simply no point in playing at all.

[Gruber]

Bearing in mind it took me about 3 hours to obtain 400 coins by logging. And when sacrificed to the claim that gave me 2 real days. 2...for a 6x6 claim.

The more advanced your products are, the more you get for it. Make arrows out of your logs, the outcome will be much better. Go on a hunt (primitive axe is all you need) and prepare food out of it, even that will sell better.
specialise somewhere, that will make maintaining your claim much easier.

But again, if you want to solo play, play YO, there you have it much easier to maintain your claim.

[GeordieMarv]

Bearing in mind it took me about 3 hours to obtain 400 coins by logging. And when sacrificed to the claim that gave me 2 real days. 2...for a 6x6 claim.

The more advanced your products are, the more you get for it. Make arrows out of your logs, the outcome will be much better. specialise somewhere, that will make maintaining your claim much easier.

But again, if you want to solo play, play YO, there you have it much easier to maintain your claim.

I don't want to play your own. I want to be able to do what I want in the "sandbox mmo" that they advertised and sold to me.

My gripe isn't with guilds at all, or the fact I'm outnumbered, or the fact I get killed a lot by guild members cos I strayed onto their land without realising.

I want the rates between guilds and personal claims to be fair. 6x6 grid. 72 points a day for guild 3600 a day for personal. 50 x cheaper for a guild. This is the only major gripe I have with this "sandbox mmo". You can try to justify it all you want. 50x more expensive for a personal claim is insane

[Gruber]

The more advanced your products are, the more you get for it. Make arrows out of your logs, the outcome will be much better. specialise somewhere, that will make maintaining your claim much easier.

They never advertised the MMO as a solo game. Just a dick move to try to force changes because you are one of the few who are not statisfied with the given concept.

There is actually no difference between MMO and YO beside the fact that there are no big groups possible, something you dislike anyway. Why do you want to play a game that do not suit you while there is the same game available?

[GeordieMarv]

The more advanced your products are, the more you get for it. Make arrows out of your logs, the outcome will be much better. specialise somewhere, that will make maintaining your claim much easier.

They never advertised the MMO as a solo game. Just a dick move to try to force changes because you are one of the few who are not statisfied with the given concept.

There is actually no difference between MMO and YO beside the fact that there are no big groups possible, something you dislike anyway. Why do you want to play a game that do not suit you while there is the same game available?

Because LIF:YO doesnt have 10,000 players on the server.

And again who is trying to force change? This is an open beta, a beta is where you play through the game and look for potential problems/balance issues before release.

If we can't talk about stuff like this now, when can we? No one is trying to force change. I (as well as alot of others in this thread) are expressing our concern at how the gulf between costs for guilds/personal claims is completely laughable.

What does it matter to you if you play in a clan? What does it matter to you if i want to play how i want to play? You're in a guild. You have it so easy compared to anyone in a group less than 10. It makes no difference to all you people in guilds, if the costs for personal claims is reduced. None at all. So please, stop telling me to go and play LIF:YO. Stop telling me how to play a sandbox mmo.

I'm not on here telling you what to do at all.

No they never advertised the mmo as a solo game, but they advertise it as a sandbox mmo. Ask a lot of people what a sandbox mmo means to them. And i BET the majority would say "the freedom to do what you want".

[Dealman]

YO is not MMO. In YO you make your own rules, play as you want. MMO was never meant to be solo oriented game. Never. Those two games are aimed at a little bit different audiences. If someone really wants to play alone in MMO, or in very small group of two, three people, then they have that option, but they need to pay for a piece of land of their own accordingly if they want to keep it protected. This will, of course, get easier once players establish their own Trading Posts.

Wholly understandable but is this coins mechanic really final? It's by far the worst aspect of MMO. Let us sacrifice other goodies akin to that of YO but maybe at a slight loss to make it a time spent running vs value thing.

I like the idea of coins, but for paying upkeep... No. Terrible. It's purposely tedious to try and enforce people to pay via microtransactions.

[Arthacus]

The more advanced your products are, the more you get for it. Make arrows out of your logs, the outcome will be much better. specialise somewhere, that will make maintaining your claim much easier.

They never advertised the MMO as a solo game. Just a dick move to try to force changes because you are one of the few who are not statisfied with the given concept.

There is actually no difference between MMO and YO beside the fact that there are no big groups possible, something you dislike anyway. Why do you want to play a game that do not suit you while there is the same game available?

The thing is, the solo guys have a point. It would be great for community development and keeping a consistent player count for the game if you could keep a small parcel of land for yourself at a reasonable cost. It helps the game pop grow, and makes it way less harsh on new players trying out the game, like the people that might join big groups later or stay solo if they enjoy it enough.

I think the reason the devs made it so difficult is how personal claims were used (maybe abused) in the Closed Beta Test. You couldn't walk a hundred squares without seeing an abandoned personal claim topped off with plant fiber rope that would be there for a month. And then you could have guilds abusing it, dropping personal claims everywhere on mines, granite, and such.

There are probably work arounds, like making personal claim unavailable for guild members, but there are ways around that, like alts putting them down. Maybe make the coins more valuable if there is only one trading post in the center. You really couldn't put a log in timer on the monument that would destroy it if the owner didn't log in a week or such because it doesn't address the abuse potential.

So yeah, it's issue moving forward in terms of game growth, keeping reviews positive, and expanding the community, but it's gonna take balancing.

[Kapustin_Yar]

I haven't really tried selling anything so far as a solo player, because I assumed it makes sense to skill up first. Unfortunately I'm having trouble balancing my skills toward what I need. This takes a bit of practice, even if you played :YO. Some things I simply forgot about.

I can craft bows and arrows but can't use them, because my sling-skills are still below 30. I can craft a chicken coop, but am over 60 points away from being able to forge nails. I can probably forget about taming horses or farming+alchemy, because I'll need most of my skillpoints just to build a chicken coop.

This just shows how serious the devs are about playing this game together. With at least one other person I'd have far less of a problem. A few friends will come in when the game is on Steam, so I'm not worried. But I experience how difficult it is to play alone.

One hut already burned down and was rebuild, as were all my fences. MY personal claim will be only good for the chicken coop and perhaps some storage. I expect it to grow slowly and with the help from my friends. But we'll need horses and have to be well organised. It's good in one way, but would be better if the game wasn't that harsh about payments and would give you options to redeem yourself when your property gets in debt. I don't want to have to rebuild everything when I make a mistake or miss a payment. I think there could be options.

[SteveHarrington]

that is my feeling about LIF MMO Solo playing

[Dobrt]

Ok! I've got it......New Idea!

All new players who land on the mainland do so in cages, where the five biggest guilds have reps who make demands, conditions, and jobs.

If the new player is not accepted, or does not accept an offer they are sent outside to be constantly killed until they do accept.

Once they do accept, they have a hotkey added so as to autopilot their character to the job/task they are assigned.

Oh wait.......that's not a new concept.....it's only a different perspective to what is happening now.

[Hodo]

In my opinion, LiF is sharpened as a game of huge clans, as others MMO games inspired Bobik to make it, like EVE online, Ultima Online and etc.

EVE online has many thousands of players who operate solo or in groups of less than 10 people, and many of them have done it for years. My corporation has over 800 members, but as a diplomat I manage relationships with over 300 corporations who are lone wolves or small groups of friends. If you want to use CCP as an example of a company who knows what it is doing you can certainly do so... but they don't force everyone into big organisations.

Eve has thousands of players who operate solo or in small groups, but they have no territory. I cant think of ONE small corp of less than 50 that owns any sector in nullsec, or wormhole space. I cant even think of a group of less than 20 that has a station in low sec. All of them live out of NPC stations and get war decced by big high sec corps and driven out every day.

CCP doesnt force you into a mega corp, but if you dont join one you are what is called a "non-factor" and thus never going to matter in the greater scheme of things.

The same thing is happening here. In LiF-MMO, if you are not part of a major or bigger clan/guild then you are a non-factor, a peasant if not lower. You are a pleb.

You can work around the current system, and have your small groups, you can form villages of small private claims next to each other, where you can fence in your own lands for protection. But you will be just that, a small village of individuals.

I know on the NA server, in the clan I am part of, we have a few vassal clans that are just a few people, I think one of them is less than 6 people. They are part of us, they help us with our projects, but they have their own little private claim about 500m away from our "castle" and they know they can come to us for protection. They are often in our discord talking with us joking, and training. They have gone on war parties with us against our current enemy.

We also have other vassals that are larger and not at all PVP minded that we protect.

Bobik didnt set this game up to be like Wurm Online, where the land will be littered with trash individual abandoned claims of people who tried to play alone and got bored after a week or two. No he set it up to mimic feudal life. Which was based around a VERY hard set of rules.



So dont be this guy.

[Gruber]

So yeah, it's issue moving forward in terms of game growth, keeping reviews positive, and expanding the community, but it's gonna take balancing.

One of the good things here is that LiF is not puplished by a big puplisher either accept a AAA titel or is shutting down the server. Devs are not makeing LiF for the masses, LiF is made like the Devs want it to be or better bobik want it to be. Lif is designed to be a hardcore game where you can and probably have to spend a lot of time in. There is no space for casuals who play 2 hours a week and happy with it.

Devs know that the target group of LiF is very small and you are not going to get many positive reviews and a endless expanding the community. There was never a plan to have more server than EU,NA and especially the EU server is overpopulated with heavy lag and crashes in some zones. Even if population spreads equally onto every zone server, the servers will never be able to hold even 10k players. The actuall player count may be that what the devs aimed for.

[Velius]

The thing is, the solo guys have a point. It would be great for community development and keeping a consistent player count for the game if you could keep a small parcel of land for yourself at a reasonable cost. It helps the game pop grow, and makes it way less harsh on new players trying out the game, like the people that might join big groups later or stay solo if they enjoy it enough.

I think the reason the devs made it so difficult is how personal claims were used (maybe abused) in the Closed Beta Test. You couldn't walk a hundred squares without seeing an abandoned personal claim topped off with plant fiber rope that would be there for a month. And then you could have guilds abusing it, dropping personal claims everywhere on mines, granite, and such.

There are probably work arounds, like making personal claim unavailable for guild members, but there are ways around that, like alts putting them down. Maybe make the coins more valuable if there is only one trading post in the center. You really couldn't put a log in timer on the monument that would destroy it if the owner didn't log in a week or such because it doesn't address the abuse potential.

So yeah, it's issue moving forward in terms of game growth, keeping reviews positive, and expanding the community, but it's gonna take balancing.

I think a lot of the complaints might be rectified if the people who are complaining they can't play as a solo/small group waited about six months. At that point there will be dozens, if not hundreds of trading posts and people can settle in more locations and not feel like they are forced to travel across the entire map.

As to the people who refuse to join up with larger guilds at the moment, make friends. If you are that anti-social you will almost certainly get obliterated when your isolated band of 2-9 people are run down by a roving warband of 20+ people on horses, at which point many will ragequit the game anyway.

The game is meant for large groups. Get over it or get out of it.

[Velius]

Right there! That's the problem.

Thinking that the teams and crews we've put together over the last 5 or 10 years -- if we aren't 10 at the moment -- we need to throw the cohesion and chemistry we've worked so hard to maintain into question, just to have a chance to claim land. Games are fleeting, they come and go, but the things we build that transcend games -- these groups -- do not.

So don't recruit, join another guild. Do you have any idea how many guilds would KILL for an organized crew of 8 people that know how to work together to join their ranks? I'm pretty sure everything you'd need would be provided. That's how a lot of large guilds become large guilds in the first place. They don't recruit any random player they see, they bring on crews of players who can get stuff done and are enjoyable to play with and give them the resources they need to

Are you truly that arrogant and closed minded that you think you'd be lowering yourselves to band together with someone else? It's no small wonder you you are struggling.

[Hodo]

As to the people who refuse to join up with larger guilds at the moment, make friends. If you are that anti-social you will almost certainly get obliterated when your isolated band of 2-9 people are run down by a roving warband of 20+ people on horses, at which point many will ragequit the game anyway.

The game is meant for large groups. Get over it or get out of it.

So don't recruit, join another guild. Do you have any idea how many guilds would KILL for an organized crew of 8 people that know how to work together to join their ranks? I'm pretty sure everything you'd need would be provided. That's how a lot of large guilds become large guilds in the first place. They don't recruit any random player they see, they bring on crews of players who can get stuff done and are enjoyable to play with and give them the resources they need to

Are you truly that arrogant and closed minded that you think you'd be lowering yourselves to band together with someone else? It's no small wonder you you are struggling.

You speak the truth sir... But some people dont want to hear it. They are part of that generation of participation awards, where everyone is special. Truth is, life isnt like that, this game reflects that. You want to compete you have to have power, and power lies in numbers.