Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Hoshiqua]

Hey ! I know I have already made this suggestion in another, older thread, but it was but one idea in a wall of text no one read, and thus I got no responses about it.

This game is already ground breaking on some points, but I think it could be ground breaking even more, and let's say, WAY more for an MMO, with this idea.

Currently, you got soft and hard hp ; Soft = consciousness and Hard = Vitality. You can guess what each does when they reach 0.

I'm okay with Soft HP, and think it should stay as it is, but Hard HP, I don't really like it.. But with the current wound system, I got this idea ,

Remove the HARD HP bar

"But, how will people die then ?" may you ask. Well, good question ! I think you should only be able to die (in a matter of seconds), if you receive a severe enough wound to vital body part (upper torso, belly, head), or if you starve, get too cold / hot. WOund system would be used to its maximum; make ALL the wounds give you a debuff ..

Wounds in the leg (cuts, fractures) slow you down, attack slower (Less overall balance), and that kind of stuff for all the body parts.

Fighting someone to death would basically be like in real life (when you think of it). Disable / "debuff" him until you can manage to land a strong enough hit that is gonna disable a vital organ, or make him bleed to death internally / externally.

For example, it could be like that in the game ; Two Two-handers with plate armor charge eachother, one eventually lands a devastating cut to his foe's leg, slowing in down, maybe even putting him on his knee. The one who hit him takes advantage of that, and aim for a killing hit ! He winds up and hit his foe's head so hard, he decaps him (and THEN the guy is dead, no matter if he was healthy or not before). Or maybe he could stab him in the heart, I dunno.

What would this change, in everyday combat ? Well, would make armor actually useful (hits have to be stronger to actually harm a body part, easy to "theorize" it), and also, combat would be better in general ! What sense does it make, when you don't kill someone when you slashed him in his head, but finish him off by putting an arrow in his foot ??

Also, there would be an actual way to slow people down, and being in combat naked would be far more dangerous, because a hit would likely debuff you horribly, making you an easy target. People with armor would thus have less risk for that, and would be able to sustain hits in the non-vital body parts, and have less chance to have their vital parts hurt enough.

But two questions remain .. how would bleeding be handled ? Well, think it would decrease your soft HP, and when you faint, if the bleeding doesn't stop naturally after a short period, you would have to be healed urgently, or you end up dying.

And, what would be difference between blunt and slash wounds ? Vital organs, if hit by blunt or slash / piercing damage, would provoke death anyway (no difference between piercing ribcage than breaking all the ribs when you want someone to die). But for non-vital body parts, slash would make you bleed, and fracture would make the normal debuff a lot worst (you are slowed a lot more when you got your leg bone broken than when you just got a cut), or maybe they could have a chance to provoke internal bleeding..

What do you guys think ? I think combat would be more enjoyable, and would favor more skilled fighters

EDIT, SHORT VERSION

Remove the HARD HP bar (keep the soft one with same mechanics), only debuffs, and maybe bleeding (which MAY lead to death) on non-vital body parts, and big debuffs on vital parts, and instant / very quick deaths if hit hard enough on vital body parts.

[Hoshiqua]

BUMP

Any responses ? What do you guys think ??

Read the short version if you don't wanna read the wall-o-text

[Bhalin17]

I would say to remove the healthbar.. and just bring in wounds and critical wounds and broken limbs....so if you break his legs he just cant move anymore and lies on the ground but is still alive ect.

Im a fan of immersion. Hit system like in Chivlary would be great.

[Hoshiqua]

Well, that's basically the idea, in a special case if you hit someone with a slashing attack so hard, his left would be disabled p

But what do you think about the whole idea ??

[Atlantis]

Sounds like something to try out. I haven't done much pvp yet, so i haven't died so often yet. But a step away from that "classic" HP bar thing is good I think. Make it optional, give it a few months to check what people think and keep the result of that investigation.

[Hoshiqua]

Maybe I could make a poll ....

I'll make one =D

[Hoshiqua]

BUMP

Keep voting guys ! What are y'all's opinion about this ? A lot of people saw this thread but a lot less actually took the time to respond and / or vote !

[Bhalin17]

I like the idea im going to put it on the list!

[Stylemonk]

Like this idea. Also linked to armor, which is useless at this moment.

[Willbonney]

I have a few issues with the ideas presented here.

First, the combat system is not up to snuff in my opinion. When two players meet up and do battle in melee, it seems to me that each player is just "waiting for their turn." One swings, hit or miss, followed by the other player swinging, hit or miss, and it continues that way until someone is on the ground, with each player basically taking turns swinging like a really bad amateur boxing match.

As someone with a bit of fencing experience, "there's more to swinging a sword than just chopping wood" (memorable line from one of my instructors, heh). I like that the game utilizes all 4 different swing directions, but it should also use all 4 different "parrying" directions as well. If a player swings an overhead chopping attack, I should be able to raise my sword or shield over my head to parry/block it. This would then allow me to counter/riposte easily.

But with that, it should also allow for feints. Fake an overhead swing, defender will raise his shield to block, and instead I would bring my swing down a bit in a sidelong arc to attack the hip or legs of the defender.

But more than that, I should also be able to block/parry with gauntlets, it was the point of wearing them. An armored glove with sleeve was used to deflect blows, with or without a buckler attached. Often they were also spiked, to be able to land piercing blows in close. With that I should also be able to attack with the pommel of a weapon.

I think the best suggestion I could give these folks is to allow different styles of stances, or "guards." A "highguard" was often the technique used for 2 handed swords sacrificing a bit of defense for the ability to employ faster offensive attacks and counters.

A "Crossguard" was often employed by large axe wielders and pikemen which kept the weapon in a readied position while still being able to block incoming blows as needed. Of course a "shieldguard" was the primary stance employed by shield users, but not always. "On guard" is your typical fencing stance, where you place your sword in your lead hand between yourself and your opponent. Allowed for quick parrying and ripostes while giving the opponent the smallest target possible to land attacks.

My point is, until the methods in which we attack each other is improved, the health and wounds of a player doesn't really matter.

[Hoshiqua]

Of course, this idea will be better for the game once combat is polished..

But I would like to see this implemented for Alpha Maybe before combat polishing !

Keep voting..

[Hoshiqua]

BUMP

Come on guys, you really have nothing to say about that idea ? Express yourself !

[Hoshiqua]

One more pro for that idea

It would make combats longer (like it or not ) and killing armored people would be a matter of timing, and hitting at the right time, the right position of the guy's body ; Easy to disable / debuff, but hard to finish off.

Yes, in general, that idea would make armors OP if they were to protect as much as in real life each body parts, but really, it's not like they are that hard to make. But even for that, there's a way to balance without making the armors unrealistic !

Just make the lighter troops more able to do shady tricks, or maybe add a "dodge" that is efficient or not depending on someone's speed, so lighter people would be able to easily dodge off heavy knights' hits.

[Wolfhelm]

The above idea regarding armor ices the cake on this one, maybe even have it harder to sprint in heavy armor,not just stamina wise, but also speed wise, sprint can be asfast as walking, but take the stamina as well...

[Willbonney]

The above idea regarding armor ices the cake on this one, maybe even have it harder to sprint in heavy armor,not just stamina wise, but also speed wise, sprint can be asfast as walking, but take the stamina as well...

I've supported this idea in the past, and will continue to do so. Mass of equipped items should do more than just increase stamina use, but also reduce movement speed. It would give more of a purpose behind your choices of armor and weapon types. Someone in full plate wielding a Poleaxe should not run as fast as someone wearing leather wielding a knife or short sword.

I also used to support the idea of wearing boots increasing movement speed, however after thinking that aspect over, I feel only shoes and footwear specifically designed should give that bonus. As in real life, I know I run faster in a pair of sneakers than if I were wearing steel-toed hard soled work boots. The same should be said about armored greaves in comparison to a pair of moccasins.

[Hoshiqua]

BUMP What do you guys think ?

[Yohor]

just one comment on leg wounds: they are not harmless - some leg wounds will kill you really really quick if not treated...

health bars are stupid, anyway. you can't know if the next hit will bring you down - sometimes a rather hard hit will hardly hurt you, but a rather weak hit will kill...

But the main point is, that armor gives you much better protection against medieval weapons, than agility does. There were supposedly more knights dying from falling from their horses in tournament than dying from an enemy sword or lance. This will remove the incentive to fight naked (which is really really stupid)

[Hoshiqua]

Yes, leg wounds will kill you quickly sometimes.. because it's bleeding. And I said that's also a possibility of quick, or slow death in my main post.

[Hoshiqua]

BUMP any ideas / thoughts about this ? I really think this should be added, I believe it would attract people and make combat make a LOT more sense.

[StaalBurgher]

I agree with your idea in principle.

I have had this idea before that to determine whether a blow does enough damage is to have a 'character balance' system which can work hand-in-hand with attributes/skills.

- Any blow that pierces armour should cause a wound or death.
- Blocking that protects against 100% damage would be essential.
- You swing the sword and if you miss balance decreases significantly. Having higher character skills would decrease the balance loss.
- If you are off balance you can swing again but damage output would be so low that even a leather vest would block your weapon.
- Moving in combat reduces balance, less so the higher character dexterity is.
- Being hit by a blow (whether it causes physical damage or not) also causes balance loss.
- Weight of weapon is important in how much balance is lost/armour that can be smashed through.
- More power if you are moving in the direction of the attack due to momentum.
- When balance is below a certain point a character cannot block.

Armoured combat would then revolve around unbalancing an opponent for the killing strike. You would have several stages;

- In balance (from perfect to low): the lower the balance the less power output
- Off balance: cannot block, you are either killed outright at this stage or knocked to the ground.
- Sprawled on the ground which is already in the game

Maybe if an opponent is heavily armoured and you have a light weapon he must be knocked to the ground before you can get a weapon through his visor or a chink under his armpit. Almost like a ganking mechanic. I mean would you really be able to smash through plate with a pitchfork? No but you can knife him once he is on the ground. So certain weapons would still be more against effective heavy armour.

Stamina/fatigue would of course have to play a vital role as well.

Overall slower combat can help with connectivity issues that MMOs suffer.

[Hoshiqua]

Yes, looks good. You should make your own thread with this idea !

[StaalBurgher]

Thanks, I doubt though that the devs would deviate that far from what they already have planned.

[Hoshiqua]

Yea.. too bad I must say. The HP system is fine, I mean, it's nothing new but it works, but the combat / damage system.. god.

[VanMacAllum]

I definitely like the idea of location specific damage having an effect on movement speed/combat ability. If a crushing blow breaks your sword arm, you shouldn't be able to use it anymore.

Armor should absolutely make a huge difference. A few of my guild members have been killed by guys who run around wearing underwear carrying bows and that completely ruins immersion, especially when my guildies are armored.

[Archize1]

I like the idea, but the combat system needs to work first before it has my vote.

Great idea, I just think its at the wrong time.

[Fenrir1969]

well im quite happy with the way things are, its ok saying "but in real life" but this is a game, stop over complicating things if you want to fence for real join a club.

[Hoshiqua]

Oo Yea, I did say that, but hell, this game is supposed to be realistic, remember ? Plus, I don't think real life fencing will allow me to.. harm people . If you think this is already "over complicating", then this game is hardly for you.. except if, maybe the devs have given up about making this game realistic, I don't know, and I may be wrong.

[Fenrir1969]

and just how realistic do you want it, in real life (realism) a broken limb will put you out of action for 3-6 months, crops will take 3-4 months to grow, it will take years before you become proficient enough with a weapon to fight, you will age and die, you cant just snap off a twig stuff an ingot on it and say 'hey look a blacksmiths hammer' you will get incurable diseases and die, i say again stop over complicating things its a game try some playability, ive been on alpha servers where 'real' life is mimmiced far too closely and it bores you to tears and destroys what could be a good game!

[Fenrir1969]

however having said all that i will concede some damage effects could work ie if you get a broken leg then your speed of movement could be reduced and a broken arm could lower your carrying ability possibly lowering your strike damage although that would have to take into account what hand your weapon was in

[Hoshiqua]

I never said I wanted to push the realism to those limits D: , I'm not mad ! But the ones I'm suggesting are far less part of the "boring" part of life, and yes, I'm thinking about playability.. what is unplayable in my suggestion ?