Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Architect Supremacist]

I know people are really exited about the possibility of a bounty hunter feature in LIF but then it got me thinking; unless there is the option to capture and bring the bounty target to your employer,( alive and unspoiled) you could hardly call it bounty hunting can you ? instead I think it would be wise to call this profession assassination.

Now I know what some of you out there are thinking *surely I can knock out my bounty by bringing him down to hard hp and then carry/transport him in his unconscious state*. True that could work well but a few things concern me.

1. (your bounty wont be unconscious forever pinch: )

Unless you can shackle your bounty in chains how are you to stop him/her from running away to safety and if they are fully looted there gonna be bloody fast and difficult to catch. Plus even if you can shackle them completely it would lead to greifing and misuse on anyone who's unconscious, and if you've got no friends to help you out it could be a long time before you die and re-spawn.


2. (even if you restrict their movement speed... they can still kill themselves sick: )

So far I can think of multiple ways of suicide; refusing to eat or drink, drowning, walking into fire, catching the attention of bears or wolfs even jumping off a cliff would suffice. I expect that the average person would kill themselves out of pure spite if it came down to prevent the bounty is from getting his money, dieing early to saving time, and to prevent the embarrassment/humiliation of being executed and finding out they posted the event on YouTube for lol's. Though it might seem like a major I think this can be easily be solved by restraining them on certain types of transport(the mobile prison carriage as an example) and a close watch on your captured bounty.


3. (If your captives are the religious type, chances are they are gonna recall themselves blink: )

I dont know too much about how its gonna work but Ive heard Bobik talk about using religious powers to recall your self back home, and if it can be used by a player in shackles or a jail cell say goodbye to your bounty$$$. So maybe some conditions can be added to prevent such an occurrence would be a good idea.


4. (It turns out your captured bounty is relaying your coordinates... on skype ohmy: )

I'm very sure your captured bounty might have knowledge on his/her whereabouts after taking a good look at that in-game map so kindly implemented with the bright red dot with the following captions I quote.... *YOU ARE HERE!!!*. Even if the gps thing is not added they can still compare the landmarks in the area to the map, plus it might not even be an in-game map, it could be a player made one. The only solution I can think of is do what they always did and blindfold them first, but even then how will it be executed ?

Anywho those are my thoughts on the subject feel free to debate or bounce off any ideas cheers

[Guest]

I agree with you almost completely. The capture system could be heavily abused. And from the map size who wants to transport a bounty for 1 hour, and who wants to have to sit at their computer for 1 hour while they do nothing because they've been restrained. Thats stupid. But If the capture system was limited only to each cities personal criminals, (which I discussed in length in http://lifeisfeudal.com/community/forum ... =5&id=1645 and am not gonna waste time going over it again) then it could add a very fun PvP element to the game, in which Bounty Hunters in a territory will attempt to capture criminals and bring them in for execution so they get paid more, and criminals attempting to rob and pillage, then escape the territory (loot in hand) without getting killed or captured. Think cops and robbers when you were a little kid, but 100 times more epic and larger scaled.

Probably going to want to give the jail system a miss too, unless it's implemented in a Battleground type scenario. Like you all have wooden weapons (like the mount and blade arena) and you've got to deplete your opponents soft hit points to knock them out, then transport them to a jail cell at your teams base. But if the enemy team can get to their players, they can wake them up. Just an example, and probs gonna make a thread concerning battleground PvP scenario's later.

[finalreview]

Simpler solution would be to allow the knockout capture system, but once you capture the player they re-spawn like they died. The bounty hunter would then be spawned a NPC that just follows him chained up or something. I don't know what the bonus would be for live capture, maybe no evil points or something.

[glenncariaga]

there is a simple solution to this (i think). when you capture someone, you get a "capture token." you carry this, and it allows you to either 1. complete the bounty 2. recall the individual.

this makes it so that when someone logs off, when they log on, they can still be confined, summoned, etc. by a bounty-hunter.

this token is only created when someone hunting them has a writ and the person being hunted has a bounty, otherwise, it doesn't matter.

[Falke88]

sounds interesting...try to improve your suggestion to get it more realistic...a token seems to be too magically

[Guest]

You shouldn't be able to capture your opponent for long periods of time, and you shouldn't have a token that magically recaptures them upon login. The griefing would be to much. For small scale PvP bounty hunting like in a city or territory I can see capture as a valid game mechanic, as you'll probably only have to transport them for 10 minutes. But no one wants to be completely powerless in game for long periods of time.

So why not have bounty offices spread across the map that you can hand your captured bounties over to? This means that you can still capture bounties anywhere and have the thrill of transporting them alive without it becoming boring. They can then be transported to wherever they are to be executed (this would have to be a pretty fast transport, maybe in-game teleport but shows a small scene of the criminal being transported away or something, so that people aren't having their time wasted). I also think adding a mechanic such that you can only be restrained for 10 minutes before escaping, and you cannot be restrained for a further 10 minutes after that, so that the system is not abused/griefed.

Thoughts?

[finalreview]

Like I've said, I can't see any type of system that restrains a player and doesn't allow him to freely play ever working. Ten minutes is even to long. From a realism standpoint it sounds great, but I really don't see a way it could work unless the player being hunted is not locked out of the game in anyway.

Players who want this either really want to have control over another person, or want to have some type of RP that they aren't evil murderers, but delivering justice. Some type of capture token / bounty mission update that you "captured" instead of "killed" the bounty should be enough.

If Bobik really wants to develop a full control capture system, why not have a 2nd "hardcore" server that allows it along with a few other "hardcore" game play mechanics? I was thinking you could add an option in game normally that if you choose to you could be captured and restrained for the players who want it. But what happens when a bounty hunter who wants to capture a player doesn't want to actually transport the player and prefers the simpler capture update / token system?

[Bobik]

Well, most points sounded here are valid, especially that it's almost impossible to provide any kind of character control for more then few seconds that would be acceptable for a captive and he will kinda like it, unless he does not RP. I believe i've said about that somewhere, that such system failed in Face of Mankind MMO.
The closest working "capture" thing i've seen in multiplayer was possibility to capture a prisoner in SWAT multiplayer, when you could disable enemy with pepper spray, flashbang, rubber bullets and then handcuff him, but that was just like a kill, just more harder.
In current state of my gamedesing ideas, there will be no captive transportation of any sort or anything like that. Only possibilities will be:
1) knock down enemy and loot him: you won't get that huge alignment hit as if you would kill him, but he will come back to consciousness, so you'll have to be fast to loot him and flee
2) shout "I yield!" during fight - that will turn surrendering animation and will turn you (after 1-2 secs of invulnerability, so you won't be killed accidently in a heat of battle) into 1 hitpoint target. If other player decide to spare you - any blunt damage will knock you down instantly and he will get almost no alignment hit and will be able to loot you. If he chooses to finish you off - he will get a HUGE alignment hit (even more then just for simple murder) and still will be able to loot you.

As about bounty hunting - i think EVE system (well it was in UO too and some other games) will work good - you wants someone to be killed - you deposit your money into bounty account on his head, so some bounty hunters will have motivation to track him and kill him.

[Guest]

As about bounty hunting - i think EVE system (well it was in UO too and some other games) will work good - you wants someone to be killed - you deposit your money into bounty account on his head, so some bounty hunters will have motivation to track him and kill him.

If you are going to make it like EvE, at least change it so that you can look at more than just the most wanted list. Make it so you can scroll through the entire bounty list, and set parameters to narrow the search to bounties more suitable to what you are looking for.

Adding in a system where a danger rating of 1-5 is set by the person posting the bounty, and they can add any additional information to the bounty into a text box.

[Balariand]

Thats a good solution for kill bounties, bu we still have some problems with alive ones.

[glenncariaga]

we could put limitations on how the token would work. for example, the summon won't work unless the token is given to the issuer of the bounty, and he does the summoning. the token would have a decay timer on it. once the person is summoned, he doesn't barf a bounty token for *that* faction for a day. (so someone with a different affiliation can still get a bounty token offa him) if someone hands in that bounty to the person that issued the bounty, all bounty tokens held by other people for that person, disappears.

and i really think this can be linked to a public execution.

[BramBlackmon]

I think the ideal is being over complicated honestly.

In order for there to be a reason to take a player alive. there has to be some sort of punishment system set up in game. In Face of mankind, this involved a player waiting for hours on end in prison for their negative rating to return to zero. If you've never played face of mankind this was a horribly unfair system. You're thrown in a cell where you literally have to sit for hours doing nothing ((have to be logged in or the timer doesn't run down)) You're completely unarmed, so at any given time the police force can(( and did on several occasions)) just run in and shoot everyone to pieces repeatedly for their amusement. and once most players got warped out of jail they would go right up to the prison front gates with the other released inmates and start a shootout with the police.

It's a really bad mechanic and I've never seen a game implement it correctly with the exception of the elder scrolls. a single player game.

What's more, In order to ensure that only specific people have access to things like shackles and teleporting devices, you'd have to make it an official faction that's hard coded into the game. and making game factions that aren't player made ends up forcing new people into joining with a specific group regardless of whether it fits their personal motives and wants.

It'd be a much better ideal to leave this up to the players once the beta has launched, hunt down a bounty hunter or assassin in game, Talk to them about the target, the price, and the requirements for proof of completion. ((say a specific item the accused has in hand.)) and leave it up to the bounty hunter to decide if he wants to take the job. If you want to add an ethical slant to it, the bounty hunter can decide to track down information in local chat and see if the guy the hit is placed on is as evil as claimed.

If you want to place a further ethical slant on things, People can break the hits into two categories.

Retrieve some stolen goods or the equivalent in other merchandise of the target.
Or Kill the target and bring back an item as proof.

Sandbox games work best when the player relies first and foremost on his Imagination to enrich the experience.

As a bounty hunter character, my chari's mindset would be that he was doing God's will by hunting down these kinds of miscreants and taking the life from their bodies. he wouldn't consider it an evil act but a virtuous one. So why should killing an evil player result in me taking a karma hit or getting paid less for a job because some other players think being a bounty hunter means taking in every target alive?

[finalreview]

There needs to be some sort of in game system to confirm the bounty hunter killed the player, or you're going to have to take screenshots of the dead body. If you want to keep a sandbox game you can make player payment be through in game trade to add to the sandbox feel. The client would be able to choose to not pay and kill the bounty hunter instead.

[Atiden]

(these are my thoughts on the bounty hunting system, sorry if it's a big wall of text.)
If you have the bounty hunting system be a simple, BH comes up, we fight, he knocks me out, he loots me and runs away, or worse he kills me and gets my stuff and runs away, I would get frustrated and tired of it over time, and I'm sure it would be the same for the BH eventually, can't imagine a player actually wanting to log in every day and go and fight his target and then win or lose, then do it all over again it would be too simplistic and each encounter would be the same, I would think a BH would want each bounty to be a little adventure, and I think the criminal would want a chance to get his stuff back if he lost.

personally I would say have the BH and criminal fight it out, if the criminal wins, he obviously gets the BH's stuff, if he loses the BH can capture him, and begin dragging him back to town, and during the trip, the criminal has multiple chances to escape, or kill the BH and get his stuff back if he was looted.

For instance, BH captures crim, crim wakes up,somehow is able to escape his bonds (for this theory he has a knife hidden somewhere), and he runs off or fights the BH, if BH wins the fight, he ties him up again and continues on, if he loses, the crim escapes, if the bounty hunter gets his target back to town, he gets the money, if he just kills his target he gets half instead, would be how they did it in the old days if I remember correctly, as for making sure the bounty hunter did indeed kill the target, if not capture, then perhaps being able to cut off the target's head, and inspecting it should say who it belonged to and if you have the skill, how long ago it was cut off.

Now I know some of you are going to say, that it would be too hard to capture your target and there wouldn't be any point in it, and to that I say, that it should be hard to capture them, you are going against another player, not a NPC that is designed to lose to you at some point, this is a thinking scheming player who has done a lot to get to where he/she is at the point the BH comes along, the process shouldn't be easy on the BH, you lesson the game if you make it easy for them, eventually the BHs will get to a point that they can capture the target every time, but even then its still even odds between them. by having a system where the two players are in constant conflict during the whole thing, you are creating a new and fairly interesting way to play the game, that would take a long time to get boring.

As for the items used to capture said player, I think the items used should be allowed to be used by everyone and at anytime, like say a rope, you can use to craft with, build with, and capture players, if for instance, I lose a fight and get knocked out, and the opponent has rope, he should have the ability to tie me up and capture me, I in turn should have the ability to try and escape at anytime, this then adds another aspect to the game, ransom, or hostages. but that is a different discussion all together.

My point is, that the game is a PVP realistic medieval sandbox MMO, and as such, things should be harder than your traditional MMO where you got a quest and went killed something came back and got items/money. you should expect a fight, and expect a even chance of losing or winning.

but at the same time you gotta remember the fun factor, by implementing something simple and fun, as opposed to something more complicated and challenging, the simple will always get boring quickly, while the challenging will become fun overtime because the player will learn how to beat the challenge, and even then, with a system where the challenge is going against another player, the challenge then will usually keep changing, and thus the fun will not cease as long as there are people playing the game.

[Dragon Scales]

@Atiden That system is way to unbalanced, and puts the favor towards the criminal. The favor should be AWAY from the criminal, other wise everyone would just say "Fuck it, may as well kill everyone i encounter" because it makes no sense to do it the other way.
Bounty Hunting should favor the hunter, not the hunted. It's easy for the criminal to just rob caravans and travelers, but what's he gonna do when something comes after him that has the advantage? It's Bounty hunting combined with a sort of crime regulation system.

[finalreview]

In terms of balance, I don't think anyone has talked about how Full PvP is going to effect bounty hunting. If I was notorious player with a very high bounty on my head, there would be several things I would do to protect myself during my game time. But mainly I would always have a group of friends with me anytime I logged in. I have a feeling bounty hunters are going to have to hunt in groups, at least if they come after me they will.

[trashman]

I love all the great ideas, but I think we will be ale to come up with something that would work for this type of game when we get a chance to play. The idea for bounty hunting in EVE seemed great on paper, but when it was implemented it proved to be rather broken and pointless. I feel that not only game mechanics, but the player environment will determine what type of bounty hunting system would work if any.

[Vestia]

I love all the great ideas, but I think we will be ale to come up with something that would work for this type of game when we get a chance to play. The idea for bounty hunting in EVE seemed great on paper, but when it was implemented it proved to be rather broken and pointless. I feel that not only game mechanics, but the player environment will determine what type of bounty hunting system would work if any.

That is exactly my thoughs, this is sandbox game, the players should set the bounties, not a 'system' for example, players pinning up a wanted paper in a town.

[finalreview]

I'm torn between 100% accurate game ran system and player driven.

[Dragon Scales]

Bumping this thread up, as it is also good.

Also, in terms of tracking the target, perhaps having a two-fold system in place. Firstly, the targets wanted poster should have information related to their last known location, but this information would be limited. So, once you are at their last known location, then what? I have read that you will be able to track animals, so why not a similar system for when you are within a certain range of the target? And if they get out of range, you lose their trail, and you have to wait for their next 'Last Known Location' to pop up (e.g. when they enter a town, perform certain actions, enter certain areas, etc)

Simpler solution would be to allow the knockout capture system, but once you capture the player they re-spawn like they died. The bounty hunter would then be spawned a NPC that just follows him chained up or something. I don't know what the bonus would be for live capture, maybe no evil points or something.

After re-reading all of the information, I am leaning towards this for the capture mechanism. But for the captured, perhaps they lose slightly less experience points for being captured?

[glenncariaga]

No one likes the idea of a bounty token barfing up when a bounty is served that needs to be delivered to the person offering the bounty? It could be a person's signet of some sort.

This token then can be used to trace the bounty in real time for a limited period. Or maybe provide a temporary debuff of some sort.

[glenncariaga]

just reviving an old idea... thoughts?

[SirWinston]

There needs to be some sort of in game system to confirm the bounty hunter killed the player, or you're going to have to take screenshots of the dead body. If you want to keep a sandbox game you can make player payment be through in game trade to add to the sandbox feel. The client would be able to choose to not pay and kill the bounty hunter instead.

+1
The way I see it you should be able to get scammed. That's the risk of sandbox games.
Everything should be left to the players. You should look for bounty hunters by asking in chat or going from village to village, maybe in the MMO there will be a Bounty Hunter guild offering their services to everyone.
Method of payment should be handled by players, and yes the guy who put the bounty could try and kill the hunter once the deed is done. But then again anyone can kill you in LIF. He will have to deal with consequences. (The BH's guild will be mad at the contractor, alignment hit, etc.)

What could be added to encourage this sort of gameplay, is that when a player dies he generates a "severed head" item in his inventory. The head should look like the player's head and bear his name. The only way to get this item is to retrieve it from the player corpse. You can then bring it back to the person who posted the bounty and he will know for sure that the player is dead.