Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Bean]

I am impressed at how realistic the developers have tried to make this game. The inclusion of magic and fantasy elements is discordant. In a world that is quickly becoming more secular and non-religious the inclusion of religion in this game is really weird.

Religion in this game is tied to alignment. This implies that being pious is ethical whereas the reality is piety is at best neutral in that it has no ability to positively affect the world and at worst extremely evil where its adherents are commanded to genocide, bigotry, fear and misogyny. In this game praying can recover alignment. Taking an axe to someone's kneecap can be forgiven by clasping your hands together? Weird.

Religion is also tied to magical elements. The Call Home effect of praying allows players to teleport around the island by calling on a favor from a deity. This implies the existence of an entity outside the bounds of nature. Once this line is crossed why not add ghosts, goblins and mother-in-laws?

I anticipate that some users may reply stating that religions played a large part in western European medieval history and this game is obviously based on western European medieval history. The game is based on a technology era: pre-industrial iron and steel working, not recorded history. This is backed up by the fact that there is no lore included in the game mirroring actual history. Even if lore were to be added in the future including hints to real history the magical elements would still be out of place based on the fact that magic isn't real.

Some users may also argue that medieval themes and religion are inextricably tied. This implies that humans who live within that technological era are incapable of critical thinking. This implication is easily refuted by referencing the renaissance.

This game is somewhat fun and still in alpha. I hope the developers put some hard thought in to the inclusion of religious skills in this game and finally decide to excise them.

[AussiePastor]

Acts 8:26-40The Message (MSG)

The Ethiopian Eunuch
26-28 Later God’s angel spoke to Philip: “At noon today I want you to walk over to that desolate road that goes from Jerusalem down to Gaza.” He got up and went. He met an Ethiopian eunuch coming down the road. The eunuch had been on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and was returning to Ethiopia, where he was minister in charge of all the finances of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. He was riding in a chariot and reading the prophet Isaiah.

29-30 The Spirit told Philip, “Climb into the chariot.” Running up alongside, Philip heard the eunuch reading Isaiah and asked, “Do you understand what you’re reading?”

31-33 He answered, “How can I without some help?” and invited Philip into the chariot with him. The passage he was reading was this:

As a sheep led to slaughter,
and quiet as a lamb being sheared,
He was silent, saying nothing.
He was mocked and put down, never got a fair trial.
But who now can count his kin
since he’s been taken from the earth?
34-35 The eunuch said, “Tell me, who is the prophet talking about: himself or some other?” Philip grabbed his chance. Using this passage as his text, he preached Jesus to him.

36-39 As they continued down the road, they came to a stream of water. The eunuch said, “Here’s water. Why can’t I be baptized?” He ordered the chariot to stop. They both went down to the water, and Philip baptized him on the spot. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of God suddenly took Philip off, and that was the last the eunuch saw of him. But he didn’t mind. He had what he’d come for and went on down the road as happy as he could be.

40 Philip showed up in Azotus and continued north, preaching the Message in all the villages along that route until he arrived at Caesarea.

No Magic, just God. Way to go Bobik, great research!

[Ziong18]

Damn Philip had a recall button!! Cheater..

[Orsus]

Well at one point they would absolve you of your sins if you paid a certain amount. So I guess we get it for free in the game, lol.

And they had to have received inspiration for a recall button from someplace.

[Falcion]

I always like the implication that something is not real. And how do you know?
You knew every person starting from medieval ages until today?

Yes magic when we consider all laws of physics and nature that we know of and all other knowledge we posses seems to not exist. Yet there are still things happening we cannot understand and comprehend.

What do we know of the past really? We know what we read about those times, sometimes we find traces of history. But we cannot be sure we know everything about it. But there are a lot of materials telling us about wonderful events that happened that couldn't be done. We treat them as exaggerations and fantasy because we didn't see it with our own eyes so we say "impossible". Yes it is, for us.

If there were like 10 people in the world who could use magic, think we would know about them? Think we could trace them, reveal that they're different? I doubt it.



Although Ii hope that in MMO it will be taken out or significantly reduced.

[Elindor]

This thread is hilarious.

Thread author doesn't like religion, asks game developers to remove scant traces of it from their game.

Epic.

Surprised this thread has not gone full shit on fan yet.

FYI - Not all people that believe that there is something behind the scientific functioning of physics and other natural laws are stupid and/or uneducated.

[Evil_This]

FYI - Not all people that believe that there is something behind the scientific functioning of physics and other natural laws are stupid and/or uneducated.

Well .. at the very least mentally ill.

[Ternyllwg]

Concurring in that magic/fantasy would degrade the desirability of the game, however, keep in mind that the "Pope" would be a player character, and therefore the game's religion mechanics can only be as good as the Pope plays per-se.

Secondly, (I hope) the game may implement church structures in line with the overall mechanic, to where all the Viking / Norse Germanic / Victual Brothers / pagan looters of all sorts can raid, loot, pillage said churches (e.g. monasteries) as much was done historically. Combined with possible future boats this would steer the culture base away from pirating and more towards the tribal/territorial essence of the game.

I do agree, however, as to teleport being a player-initated, non-essential magical function. If the game keeps the mechanism tied to faith, they will have to pander to every religion any player wants added to the game or put up with all the cries of favoritism.

However fun it is...to imagine realistic in-game desert attrition and characters being judged by the Sun. And blockade starvation/cannibalism---Germanic/Roman dynamic. And human sacrifice for those mountain peeps who needed a warm leather coat.

I recall reading somewhere about vengeful ghosts related to LiF.

[AussiePastor]

By the 11th century the Vikings on the British island respected the Monastery/Abbey as a place of sanctuary (food, healing, shelter etc).

It was really the last place that fighting of different ancient mythology, because Jewish, Christianity( Roman, Orthodox and beginning of Protestant), Islam had established its self as the main form of faith due to main belief that was cultivated around Monotheism.

The best thing is this time of the Roman Catholic Pope was about to be dislodged from France(Avignon Papacy) and the Feuds began before the Pope returned to Rome(Vatican City).

So the idea of old ancient faiths like the Celtic/Norse or any other Polytheism type of idea of looting is out of sink.

What was happening was power plays to be in High Regard with the "Church".

So, to go and rape and pillage Monasteries or An Abbey was only done by borrow minded Tyrants that got absolutely smashed by God Fearing, Church centred Kings, Dukes, Lords etc.

I hope this game does the same.

I myself would like to see buildings like a Chapel, Church, Cathedral; Also a school, Monastery, Abbey.

[Ternyllwg]

The first game lore cites 932.

http://lifeisfeudal.com/LoreStories/Excerpt-from-An-Abridged-History-of-the-Acaelian-Empire

According to Wikipedia, the Viking Age ended ca. 1066. 1001-1099 is the 11th century to which you refer...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age

If we pick 10th centry for iron being in the game then I'd be afraid of Cordoba, and assume that Orthodox were spreading into Bulgaria and Caholtics spreading into Great Moravia (Bohemia). Fun times:

Raiding Hungarians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians#History_after_900

Mark of Geronis (Austria/Brandenburg/Meissen/Hansa expansion)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/HRR_10Jh.jpg

If we pick 11th century then Hungarians would be Christianized, I'd be afraid of Seljuks to the east, Germanic pagans to the far northwest, and Cuman (Tengri) pagans to the north of the Orthodox territories. Fun times:

(Gaining Bohemia/Western Switzerland/Provence/Savoy/Lorraine Losing Pommerania)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Investiture_controversy

Middle ground might be 1000 AD

"We now move forward in time, to the decades around the turn of the first millennium."..."At the same time, west Francia boasts two rather remarkable novelties: the knight and the castle. The earliest castles were generally wooden towers placed on natural or artificial hills and surrounded by stockades. From the late tenth century onwards they appear in the sources as bases of small troops of heavily armed and armored mounted warriors. Such mounted warriors were in themselves nothing new. But what is new is their deployment in castles to fight small brush wars with each other. These early knights quickly developed a bad reputation, particularly in ecclesiastical circles. Contemprorary texts written above all by clerics and monks from the central and southern parts of the kingdom complain in bitter and outraged terms about depredations and killings carried out by castle-based lords and their mounted followers against ecclesiastical property and persons." Brown, Warren. Violence in Medieval Europe. New York: Routledge 2011. Print.

The book goes on to explain the transformation towards feudalism proper between the last part of 900s and the first part of 1000s.

You mention the "Western Schism" and yet I personally imagine the game era to predate the "East-West Schism".

At best we can evidence the game era in this way:

"Piety is a secondary crafting skill that is extremely unique. Only one player on an entire server can reach level 100 Piety, and that person is the Pope. The 10 next highest Piety players are ranked Cardinals, but the Pope and Cardinals can begin Pope elections. The Pope receives two voices, while Cardinals receive one."

http://lifeisfeudal.com/mmorpgsandLiF/Medieval-MMORPG-Life-is-Feudal-no-orcsno-elves-and-Piety

This means that if only Pope/Cardinals get to vote the successor Pope then the game is pre-1130.

e.g. Any Lord could appoint a landed bishop to the local church property, and that bishop would not be allowed to inherit the Lord's claims (assuming LiF incorporates some mechanic similar to this). Alternatively Papal instead of Free investiture could be an option, where all Lords within a realm vote for or against. This would allow for religious and heretic/infidel territory balance.

[Azzerhoden]

I anticipate that some users may reply stating that religions played a large part in western European medieval history and this game is obviously based on western European medieval history. The game is based on a technology era: pre-industrial iron and steel working, not recorded history. This is backed up by the fact that there is no lore included in the game mirroring actual history. Even if lore were to be added in the future including hints to real history the magical elements would still be out of place based on the fact that magic isn't real.

Some users may also argue that medieval themes and religion are inextricably tied. This implies that humans who live within that technological era are incapable of critical thinking. This implication is easily refuted by referencing the renaissance.

How about if this player argues that you are a bunch of very unpleasant things that would probably get me in trouble with the moderators if I were to explicitly state.

Perhaps instead I should point out that although this game is supposed to be based on life in a feudal society, it is possible to put a cow, pig or wild sheep in my pocket after I spend a minutes attempting to tame the creature?

Or instead that one can pick up a massive recently logged tree on ones back and carry it?

Or perhaps that although it is possible to run out of food, there is no disease in the game. You know, things like the black death or small pox killing massive amounts of the population.

Or maybe, (probably the winning argument), that players COME BACK TO LIFE after dying. Their rebirth within seconds of dying, with nothing more than a slight weakness.

Yes, I think that one is the winner. Now go away.

[Rixie]

How about if this player argues that you are a bunch of very unpleasant things that would probably get me in trouble with the moderators if I were to explicitly state.

Perhaps instead I should point out that although this game is supposed to be based on life in a feudal society, it is possible to put a cow, pig or wild sheep in my pocket after I spend a minutes attempting to tame the creature?

Or instead that one can pick up a massive recently logged tree on ones back and carry it?

Or perhaps that although it is possible to run out of food, there is no disease in the game. You know, things like the black death or small pox killing massive amounts of the population.

Or maybe, (probably the winning argument), that players COME BACK TO LIFE after dying. Their rebirth within seconds of dying, with nothing more than a slight weakness.

Yes, I think that one is the winner. Now go away.

You, my good sir, have possibly won an internet. Kudos for clear-headed, non-flaming, well-reasoned argumentation.