Time To Kill Goal?

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Archaegeo
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Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Archaegeo » 16 Mar 2014, 12:11

Has anyone seen or heard anything from the team about their goals for TTK (i.e. how long a fight should last?)

Myself I am a proponent of a very short TTK, especially since we have a wound system and body hit locations.

Hit my arm hard enough and it either breaks or get sliced off. (My goal for a sandbox PvP is being able to cut off your arm and then beat you to death with it)

I know a lot of PvP'ers say a long TTK makes pvp more fun because fights last longer and you can do more planning.

But shouldn't a well planned attack put your opponent down as fast as possible?

Anyway, that's my pitch for a short TTK, but has anyone heard goals for it say when both opponents evenly matched in skills/weapons/armor?

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Saxxon
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Saxxon » 16 Mar 2014, 12:55

I don't really think this is a "goal".

I believe combat should reach a point where it is fun, looks good and is fluid and natural as opposed to having a timer as a goal.

Armor, shields and weapons along with the skill of the individual will dictate TTK not some fixed time that you can measure.

Remember this is physics based combat and not some arbitrary number crunching going on in the backround.

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SirWinston
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by SirWinston » 16 Mar 2014, 13:17

I like how it's done in Mount & Blade, combat can last long if your opponent is skilled but a direct blow to the head unprotected can get you killed.

That's one of the things that will be balanced throughout alpha/beta. At this point nobody has really tested the PvP system with armors and high quality weapons so there's no point in speculating.
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Archaegeo
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Archaegeo » 16 Mar 2014, 14:24

I didn't mean goal I meant more does the dev team have a timeframe they are shooting for when two evenly matched face off.

I do hope its like you describe M&B where shots to unprotected body are devastating .


TruePain
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by TruePain » 16 Mar 2014, 15:08

The question is though, will there be 2 people that are that evenly matched? Theres a reason its a team based combat system with formations etc, and theres so many factors that play into it that idk if its possible for people to be evenly matched. Guess we'll have to see :)


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Siegbert » 16 Mar 2014, 19:51

FewTheProud wrote:The question is though, will there be 2 people that are that evenly matched? Theres a reason its a team based combat system with formations etc, and theres so many factors that play into it that idk if its possible for people to be evenly matched. Guess we'll have to see :)


Well, in M&B two evenly matched players can fight for quite a while until one dies. Chance plays a certain role in how a duel turns out... would I play against myself, after 10-20 seconds one of the "me"s would have won.

About dismemberment:
while it's totally fun, it's also quite unrealistic to cut off an armored fighter's arm with your sword. Plate armor as well as chainmail is very effective against the cutting force of a sword.

About time to kill: well, I want it to take some time ideally. An unarmored guy should be killed with 1-2 sword strikes. A fully armored guy maybe 5 strikes. I don't want battles to be over quickly.
I don't think you can do any better than M&B in that aspect.


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Proximo » 16 Mar 2014, 21:17

People die to quickly in M&B, 90% of the time people have full armour and the way you can land blows that defy the laws of physics. For instance starting a swing with your blade already 1cm from there chest does full slashing damage even though with no force behind such an attack would you get through anything from leather or above.

The lolstab is also quite ridiculous when you've released a stab and then proceed to move your character a few paces and still land the stab you've already thrust.

I look forward to LiFs combat because it has soft and hard HP, the greatness of soft HP is taking the force of a blow that does not penetrate your armour. This way you can still be bruised and broken which in real life would slowly effect your fighting ability but it is not a direct bleed wound that = death when you reach 0.

Also a goal can be a time frame especially when your looking to set a specific time frame so I don't know why your trying to backpedal from what your thread title clearly says Arch.

The time is takes to kill is completely based off the skill of both individual players and could not possibly be guessed at.

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Thokan
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Thokan » 16 Mar 2014, 22:08

Do note that the TTK and other combat mechanic fine-numbers differentiate between M&B mods.

cRPG combat is pure shyte.
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Drakes821
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Drakes821 » 17 Mar 2014, 00:23

I hope it takes a decent amount of time to kill someone who is wearing armor. With no healing mid combat fights would be too fast if you can take half of someones health away with one swing.

Also if you get attacked unexpectedly out in the world it's nice to have a chance and fight back and not be doomed from one blow.

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Bobik
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Bobik » 17 Mar 2014, 07:47

Drakes821 wrote:I hope it takes a decent amount of time to kill someone who is wearing armor. With no healing mid combat fights would be too fast if you can take half of someones health away with one swing.

Also if you get attacked unexpectedly out in the world it's nice to have a chance and fight back and not be doomed from one blow.


Actually this.

I believe it is VERY VERY bad idea to compare TTK times of a small scale multiplayer battle arenas, where death is just a few seconds of a respawn timer and few more seconds of running to battle.

That is MMO, and being one shot killed after running half a world, collecting good herbs, wearing precious armor, losing some skills and so on and so on is just way too harsh. Even for LiF :D

So our goal is to provide at least 2 blows minimum to kill/KO a player. But not more then 10-15 or so blows max to kill a fully armored person. There will be no absolute protection, so even if you have a rusty knife, you should be able to disassemble a fully armored knight in a few minutes of constant hitting :)


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Siegbert » 17 Mar 2014, 08:03

Bobik wrote:I believe it is VERY VERY bad idea to compare TTK times of a small scale multiplayer battle arenas, where death is just a few seconds of a respawn timer and few more seconds of running to battle.


I agree, but to M&B's defence: there is persistent world mod in which battles can last quite some time. Being armored will protect you from at least 3 blows. You would go back behind your lines to find a doctor to patch you up. Persistent World is also full loot so you don't wanna die constantly and mostly it works unless you're being ambushed.
I feel that this is a fair comparison.


So our goal is to provide at least 2 blows minimum to kill/KO a player. But not more then 10-15 or so blows max to kill a fully armored person. There will be no absolute protection, so even if you have a rusty knife, you should be able to disassemble a fully armored knight in a few minutes of constant hitting :)


I'm fine with this evaluation. :)


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by AceTheFlame » 17 Mar 2014, 12:19

Bobik wrote:Actually this.

I believe it is VERY VERY bad idea to compare TTK times of a small scale multiplayer battle arenas, where death is just a few seconds of a respawn timer and few more seconds of running to battle.

That is MMO, and being one shot killed after running half a world, collecting good herbs, wearing precious armor, losing some skills and so on and so on is just way too harsh. Even for LiF :D

So our goal is to provide at least 2 blows minimum to kill/KO a player. But not more then 10-15 or so blows max to kill a fully armored person. There will be no absolute protection, so even if you have a rusty knife, you should be able to disassemble a fully armored knight in a few minutes of constant hitting :)


This is good to know. My only issue so far with the no healing was how it would affect smaller groups(or even just that lonewolf that gets jumped while out in the world). As you stated, things are different when it comes to MMOs. Players need to be able to effectively counterattack.


Archaegeo
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Archaegeo » 17 Mar 2014, 12:34

Thanks for the feedback Bobik, exactly what I was asking to hear.

Good info, needs a wiki page


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Swallow » 17 Mar 2014, 12:39

Bobik wrote:
Drakes821 wrote:I hope it takes a decent amount of time to kill someone who is wearing armor. With no healing mid combat fights would be too fast if you can take half of someones health away with one swing.

Also if you get attacked unexpectedly out in the world it's nice to have a chance and fight back and not be doomed from one blow.


Actually this.

I believe it is VERY VERY bad idea to compare TTK times of a small scale multiplayer battle arenas, where death is just a few seconds of a respawn timer and few more seconds of running to battle.

That is MMO, and being one shot killed after running half a world, collecting good herbs, wearing precious armor, losing some skills and so on and so on is just way too harsh. Even for LiF :D

So our goal is to provide at least 2 blows minimum to kill/KO a player. But not more then 10-15 or so blows max to kill a fully armored person. There will be no absolute protection, so even if you have a rusty knife, you should be able to disassemble a fully armored knight in a few minutes of constant hitting :)



Does this include missile weapons to high multiplier body parts? (IE: Arrow to face. Or bolt to face. Or javelin to face. Really, anything to face is what I'd like to know)

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Bobik
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Bobik » 17 Mar 2014, 13:13

Yes. Ranged weapons will not one shot too.


Swallow
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Swallow » 17 Mar 2014, 13:26

Bobik wrote:Yes. Ranged weapons will not one shot too.


You monster.


Seppuku
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Seppuku » 17 Mar 2014, 13:37

Bobik wrote:
Drakes821 wrote:I hope it takes a decent amount of time to kill someone who is wearing armor. With no healing mid combat fights would be too fast if you can take half of someones health away with one swing.

Also if you get attacked unexpectedly out in the world it's nice to have a chance and fight back and not be doomed from one blow.


Actually this.

I believe it is VERY VERY bad idea to compare TTK times of a small scale multiplayer battle arenas, where death is just a few seconds of a respawn timer and few more seconds of running to battle.

That is MMO, and being one shot killed after running half a world, collecting good herbs, wearing precious armor, losing some skills and so on and so on is just way too harsh. Even for LiF :D

So our goal is to provide at least 2 blows minimum to kill/KO a player. But not more then 10-15 or so blows max to kill a fully armored person. There will be no absolute protection, so even if you have a rusty knife, you should be able to disassemble a fully armored knight in a few minutes of constant hitting :)


Will healing potions be instant or will they heal over time? Instant heals are very unrealistic and basically reward whoever brought the most potions to the fight.
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Bobik
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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Bobik » 17 Mar 2014, 14:30

Who said that there will be healing potions? :) Only way to regain your hardHP is a natural regeneration or a cure of your wounds that lowers hardHP.


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Protunia » 17 Mar 2014, 14:40

Bobik wrote:Yes. Ranged weapons will not one shot too.


Excellent! :Bravo:


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Re: Time To Kill Goal?

Post by Siegbert » 17 Mar 2014, 15:18

Yay for no heal potions!

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