Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Bg22]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this game so far... But holy crap, I cannot stand how long it takes to obtain flux. It's a decent concept, but the rate needs to be increased at least a little. It's quite painful in my opinion.

[Bishops]

Over 25 hours gathering herbs, 2 flux made, this weekend. I understand its supposed to force you into trading for the ones you need, I understand that you can keep the herbs for when alchemy comes into the game.

Steel is a huge commodity, and flux is required to make steel. For a gate module it takes 4 locks, thats 8 steel bars, made from 2 steel ingots which takes 4 iron bars and 24 flux.... for ONE gate module.

Why can you not mine steel ??

Use flux for hardened steel tools instead of common locks !!!!!!!!

[Azzerhoden]

Why can you not mine steel ??

Because steel is an alloy, not a natural occurring material.

[Bishops]

Oh yea.... well, should make it easier to mine some stuff that you can make steel for common locks and such, and use flux for hardened steel for epic tools and weapons.

[Azzerhoden]

Oh yea.... well, should make it easier to mine some stuff that you can make steel for common locks and such, and use flux for hardened steel for epic tools and weapons.

I agree.

https://lifeisfeudal.com/mantis/view.php?id=2165

[Bg22]

I believe a simple solution to this would be, (and most certainly SHOULD be in the game) is the ability to search for a specific herb after you've found it once. If I figure which herb makes what, why would I gather random herbs that I don't need? (Talking as if it were real life) I would know exactly what to look for, and wouldn't randomly pick up things I don't need.

[Bishops]

I believe a simple solution to this would be, (and most certainly SHOULD be in the game) is the ability to search for a specific herb after you've found it once. If I figure which herb makes what, why would I gather random herbs that I don't need? (Talking as if it were real life) I would know exactly what to look for, and wouldn't randomly pick up things I don't need.

Exactly what I was thinking, if I know what I'm looking for, know what it looks like, I should be able to look just for specific herbs. Another suggestion would be able to grow specific herbs in a 'herb garden'.

[Rixie]

Herb gardens sound like a great idea, but they should also be difficult to keep so that people can't just create mass amounts of herbs. For example, some real life herbs are very finicky and need to have the precisely correct conditions (water, soil, light, etc.) to grow.

I also want to point out that steel was probably extremely hard to come by in the medieval ages. So that might be realistic.

However, I do think it's a little strange that locks HAVE to be made from steel. I agree that that should be changed. It's ridiculous to need such high grade, rare, precious material just to make a house.

[Bg22]

The simplest fix for this is to add the ability to search for specific herbs after you've found them once. This game is very realistic, so as in real life, if I knew I needed a herb with a red berry attached to a fern-like plant, I would look for that specific plant..

[Willbonney]

All I can say is you get better at it. Nowadays it takes me about an hour to make about 30 flux with leveled characters, 2-3 hours if I just started new characters on that server.

Tips:
Every characters Herb Effects are unique, what is flux for one character will not be for another, what is useless to the character you are on is often not for another.

Thus, I normally have at least 2 characters with Herbalism leveled to make flux. Every character gets 11 total herbs that have the flux effect, unlock them all your "main" character, and when you are gathering, always save 1 of each (lowest q) of those herbs. Keep them in your inventory when gathering and in a barrel or something when not, never turn your "marker" herbs into flux, those are there so you can see when you've picked up another of the same type that is flux. Then when you find a like type, drag and drop it right next to your marker herb to keep track.

Then gather stacks of 10-20 of the herbs that are not flux for that character, make a new character, level it's gathering up to 60 and then herbalism up to 60 to start making flux. Grab your stacks of "non-flux" herbs that your first character gathered, and start the flux search again only with those herbs.

In the end, you'll have 16 to 20 herb types that you'll be able to turn to flux from these two characters. Now you can go ahead and make a third if you wish, but I usually don't bother because you usually only get 2-3 more different herbs that turn, so not worth the effort in my opinion. You might be luckier than me, so go ahead and give a shot if you want. I then just trade to others my personal useless herbs to others that get flux for 'em, in return for their useless that I get flux from and so on, normally in stacks of 20s because less than that is usually not worth it to meet up with someone.

[Willbonney]

Also to add, it is very useful to make yourself an "herb garden" now. To do this, gather up some 80+ Fertile Soil and then place it in a 10x10 area.

Now Plant anything there, Flax is usually what I do. Harvest when ready, and then DO NOT Plough the tiles, leave them as bare soil. You can now use the area to gather herbs. If you get to the point where all you are finding is fresh bushes and never pristine, get ahold of a bunch of good q fertilizer and raise the quality of the soil back up. Gathering Herbs is like any other gathering, each herb, berry, mushroom, or root you gather reduces that tile's soil quality by 1.

[Azumazi]

Herb gardens sound like a great idea, but they should also be difficult to keep so that people can't just create mass amounts of herbs. For example, some real life herbs are very finicky and need to have the precisely correct conditions (water, soil, light, etc.) to grow.

I also want to point out that steel was probably extremely hard to come by in the medieval ages. So that might be realistic.

However, I do think it's a little strange that locks HAVE to be made from steel. I agree that that should be changed. It's ridiculous to need such high grade, rare, precious material just to make a house.

Actually, steel wasn't uncommon. It was made by applying wheat straw or charcoal to the iron to get it to apply carbon to the iron to make it into steel. That practice was carried over since before the fall of Rome. The issue that they had was maintaining an even transfer of it, which made some steel's more brittle than others and that practice wasn't really mastered for sometime. Generally speaking though, most blades were iron with steel edges as the iron had a better flexing point when slow cooled while the tempered edges maintained a better hard edge.

Now on to locks. The vast majority of locks from 200BCE to 1500CE were of Bronze construction. Bronze didn't rust, it tarnished but was far easier to maintain. They did at times use parts that were Iron, like the keys which were usually cast iron. Bronze was also used as most locks were cast molded and assembled and required far less effort and time to produce.

up until after the 4th crusades, most locks were actually produced by Monasteries as when they were not casting Bells or Cannon, they would use their foundries to cast large amounts of bronze for locks, keys, and hoops for barrels and other use full everyday tools. Bronze farmer tools were especially wanted for ploughs as they were cheap to purchase and lasted a long time.

So the truth is, they need to add in Tin to go with Copper and add in a huge assortment of objects to be made with Bronze.

[Bg22]

Herb gardens sound like a great idea, but they should also be difficult to keep so that people can't just create mass amounts of herbs. For example, some real life herbs are very finicky and need to have the precisely correct conditions (water, soil, light, etc.) to grow.

I also want to point out that steel was probably extremely hard to come by in the medieval ages. So that might be realistic.

However, I do think it's a little strange that locks HAVE to be made from steel. I agree that that should be changed. It's ridiculous to need such high grade, rare, precious material just to make a house.

Actually, steel wasn't uncommon. It was made by applying wheat straw or charcoal to the iron to get it to apply carbon to the iron to make it into steel. That practice was carried over since before the fall of Rome. The issue that they had was maintaining an even transfer of it, which made some steel's more brittle than others and that practice wasn't really mastered for sometime. Generally speaking though, most blades were iron with steel edges as the iron had a better flexing point when slow cooled while the tempered edges maintained a better hard edge.

Now on to locks. The vast majority of locks from 200BCE to 1500CE were of Bronze construction. Bronze didn't rust, it tarnished but was far easier to maintain. They did at times use parts that were Iron, like the keys which were usually cast iron. Bronze was also used as most locks were cast molded and assembled and required far less effort and time to produce.

up until after the 4th crusades, most locks were actually produced by Monasteries as when they were not casting Bells or Cannon, they would use their foundries to cast large amounts of bronze for locks, keys, and hoops for barrels and other use full everyday tools. Bronze farmer tools were especially wanted for ploughs as they were cheap to purchase and lasted a long time.

So the truth is, they need to add in Tin to go with Copper and add in a huge assortment of objects to be made with Bronze.

+1 to this. Also, it'd be cool if we could burn bones to help create steel. As some believe this is how the Ulfberht swords were created.

[Azumazi]

Ulfberht blades were produced from Steel that was traded by Viking using the Volga trade routes as they had vessels they would take inland to present day Kazakhstan. The Tang Dynasty had large foundries in the region due to the large amounts of good quality Iron and other metals including metals to make Brass as well as good ceramics were in the area. They would in turn sell these goods along the Silk Roads into the Middle East and the Vikings also purchased this steel. They know it's of this same steel as they tested it vs steel traded in the Middle East around the same period.

Basically, the reason why the Viking's had such good swords, was due to their ability to trade for it when the only "Western" nation besides them at the time that could was the Byzantine Empire, and that's when the Turks weren't blocking access to goods on the roads to foreign markets. Mind you, we are also talking about 800CE here, when most of the Europe was either under Frankish control or warring states for the most part.

To be honest, some of the best Medieval weapons were produced using this same steel along with a very highly sought after steel from India better known as "Damascus Steel" as the Crusaders would pay top dollar for the metal for their weapons. What made Damascus steel so unique was the node in which it was harvested from had trace amounts of Nickle, Chrome, and Vanadium as well as Cobalt and Manganese. Roughly about 0.02% Chromium, 0.08% Nickel, 0.05% Vanadium, and between 0.01 and 0.03% of Manganese and Cobalt. These levels of mixing aren't that far from late 19th and early 20th century steel, but in a natural form. Not to mention around 1.1% carbon. It made for amazingly high quality edges and due to the carbon structure when produced, it created a very unique texture to the blades giving them the color and "waves" look to it. This texture also gave it its strength making them very flexible and highly resistant to breaking under extreme shock.

[Willbonney]

Lot of good history above me, too bad it's inaccurate.

Damascus steel comes from the Middle East, most prominently Damascus, which is the capitol city of Syria.

The steel you are thinking of is "wootz" steel, made in southern India. Now, Damascus Steel was likely made from wootz steel shipped in from India, however the processes used in Syria by the blacksmiths is what gave it "carbon nanotubes" and the Damascus Steel qualities.

Modern attempts at reproducing the methods to make Damascus Steel have been questionable at best, and absolute failures at worst.

It is also unknown what exactly the term "Damascus Steel" refers. It could be where it comes from, the city of Damascus, or a type of fabric the patterns within the blades resemble "Damask" fabric, also named from the city it originated.

[Azumazi]

Wootz Steel and Damascus steel are the same thing, just forged differently. It's from the same node that was imported through Persia, not Syria. Although Salah al-Din did rule over Syria and Egypt and did trade with the Western powers the metals that he had imported at a higher rate.

The Mlechchha Dynasty in India originally began trading to the Persians the Steel which traveled by caravan's from present day Baghdad to Damascus and Antioch. You're right that the process they used gave it the nanotube like structure, but modern historians and scientists alike agree that Wootz steel and proper "Damascus" steel are the same metal, from the same node.

Later the Pala Dynasty would continue this trade which was disrupted briefly with the Second Crusade, not due to the Holy war, but due to politics and an invasion into the sub continent of India. Around this time period a lot of steel's were being imported locally and other metals as the Golden Horde expanded west and by 1250, there was a large influx of goods and markets. Unlike popular belief, the Mongol's did not interrupt trade nor Religion, they instead placed local rulers over areas they had pacified but continued to allow trade as it benefited their cause.

What mostly gets confusing was the popular Damascus style of weapons that Nur Al-Din made popular, and later used by his Lieutenant who rose to power in the south, Salah ah-Din or "Saladin".

Overall, just like many other weapons of the time period, many copies claiming to be of a certain type were sold and used, but were not legitimate weapons of the class of metal that they were claiming to be.

[Zztong]

The simplest fix for this is to add the ability to search for specific herbs after you've found them once. This game is very realistic, so as in real life, if I knew I needed a herb with a red berry attached to a fern-like plant, I would look for that specific plant..

That, and/or you might also allow a couple more of the herbs serve as alternatives to other ingredients.

[Elric]

I am 100% in agreement with the idea of a "search for xxxxx herb" option once you have discovered one of it's properties.

I've really enjoyed LiF thus far, but Herbalism was very quickly at the top of my list for skills that I never wanted to do again. Not only is it a pain to "search for herbs", then "gather herbs", but then there is a chance to fail getting anything?! And then to top it all off, everything was random. I don't see anyone enjoying the RNG game here when flux is such an important part of steel crafting.

Honestly, I think the whole herbalism system needs to be reworked. For starters, 67 different herbs seem to be overkill. I can't see how the number of herb effects in the game would need to have this many different ingredient herbs. This causes a major clutter in your inventory and it's really hard to remember what is what. Secondly, as far as I know this is the only craft in the game entirely dependent on RNG. You can search for something you need and find it in 5 minutes, or you could search for 5 hours before you get what you need.

EDIT: And please please please remove the "herbs have a random effect that differs with each player". Make all herbs have specific properties that are the same for everyone. At least that way we can somewhat tell what we are looking for.

[Sebas555]

I think that the herbalism system is not that bad... actually it is quite innovative and brings a necessity to collaborate with others to help you move forward. Maybe it's just the actual amount of flux required to do things like small house and gates that could be adjusted.

If you had a way to just find what you need, you wouldn't have anything to trade to others and get more flux... I guees that if you don't like to do it, let someone do it for you! It's true that it creates quite a mess in your inventory but once it's organized into bags, it's not that bad and doesn't weight too much.

[Orthe]

There is a reason this game is team based.

Once you ID all 11 herbs, It isn't that hard to get Flux...

Especially If you are playing with other people, seeing as you might have 1 or 2 in common with someone else in your group, and they will utilize the rest. Between 4-5 people almost every herb(At least half) will be Flux for the group.

Work together, not that hard.

[Ian-C]

I have never worked out why steel required Flux as steel should be made with Iron and Carbon which is charcoal so why not have it in game the same way.

If they must make Flux a requirement to slow things down then just 1 or 2 not the ridiculous amount it requires at the moment.

[Willbonney]

Wow, folks still having this issue eh?

I think you folks need to come to grips with the fact that they want to make the base game as difficult as possible to be a "one man village" as possible. Not impossible, but at least less attractive. So that when they are ready for the MMO, they have a good base for promoting teamwork.

I find their development of flux, and how different players have different flux plants, to be an ingenious method of promoting community and trade.

Flux is not rare for those players who either make 2-3 Herbalist alts on a server, or have 2-3 Herbalist friends on a server.

[Vorl]

Wow, folks still having this issue eh?

I think you folks need to come to grips with the fact that they want to make the base game as difficult as possible to be a "one man village" as possible. Not impossible, but at least less attractive. So that when they are ready for the MMO, they have a good base for promoting teamwork.

I find their development of flux, and how different players have different flux plants, to be an ingenious method of promoting community and trade.

Flux is not rare for those players who either make 2-3 Herbalist alts on a server, or have 2-3 Herbalist friends on a server.

Except that the way they are doing herbs and such breaks their base concept of "reality".

So many areas of the game are realistic and good, and then there is something like herbalism/gathering.

Herbs are herbs. They do the same thing for everyone. The people who said "but they do different things if prepared differently", that is a true statement, but you could say the same thing about any aspect of the game.

I understand that they are trying to keep things different with herbs, but it's just a bad design.

Also, I agree with everyone else who has been saying that we should be able to search for certain herbs by name. That's kind of basic. I shouldn't be playing a guessing game and collecting random herbs. In reality I would be looking for specific things to meet a goal most of the time.

Now I am all for a general "find herb" thing still that gives you random herbs (I think the herbs should each have a unique look still, so you know what you are getting no matter how you gather them).

I also agree that 67 herbs is a bit of overkill. it takes 3/4 of a barrel screen just to organize them.

While we are at it, if we are going for so much realism, why all the fake herb names? Why not use real herbs, even if you have add properties to them that they don't have, it's much easier to talk about and remember herbs that are real and that people have heard about.

[StaalBurgher]

but it's just a bad design.

I can't disagree with you more. The current system is ingenious and simple.

This system will make all herbs valuable. It will also prevent a player just going online to see what recipe to use instead of testing it out for himself.

Once you have villages/towns going and multiple herbalists running around the total amount of herb harvesting per player will drop drastically.

The only problem right now is that the RNG effect is pronounced because there is no market for herbs that you can buy. That and the fact that a simple construct like a lock requires steel. That should be an either/or situation like it is for soft/hardwood for some items.

As for the number of herbs well, completely irrelevant complaint. You need a high number to make it possible for higher number of gathers to have a time saving effect.

[MickeySmith]

I don't understand why people think it is so hard to get flux. I spent 4 hours today gathering (from 0-90) and then doing herbalism (from 0-60) and had 3 crafted flux by the end and half my recipes. Another hour or two and I will have all my recipes and probably about 20 flux. This is on a server with a 1 skill multiplier. After having been through several server wipes you get it down fairly fast lol.

[StaalBurgher]

I don't understand why people think it is so hard to get flux. I spent 4 hours today gathering (from 0-90) and then doing herbalism (from 0-60) and had 3 crafted flux by the end and half my recipes. Another hour or two and I will have all my recipes and probably about 20 flux. This is on a server with a 1 skill multiplier. After having been through several server wipes you get it down fairly fast lol.

So practically two days play for 20 flux. Say even 30 flux if you remove wastage. Hmm... fun.

[MickeySmith]

Once you get your recipes it goes fast. Most communities will have several people working on this and if you don't then do some trading. Nothing in life that is good is easy

[Grimmblut]

I don't want to sound offensive, but I honestly cannot understand how some people have that much of a problem with creating flux. It is a pain in the ass to find out your 11 flux herbs, I agree on that. But I found out 9 of them after 3 hours of (solo) herb gathering and created 12 flux with them. After two of my guildmates started to dump their herbs into my chest and I was able to create flux from those herbs which where of no use to them, and vice versa, we ended up with 39 flux after just 5 hours.

The first reply in this thread stated, that he was only able to create 2 flux after 25 (!!) hours. As I initially said, I don't want to sound offensive, but I can't believe that this is true - or you're doing something horribly, horribly wrong.

Once you sort your herbs alphabetically in a chest and found out like 8 to 10 of your 11 flux herbs (takes in total about 5 hours), you're producing flux like sausages. No need for a fix here, imho. Maybe implement some features to improve the sorting of gathered herbs or implement some tool tips, but that's it.

[StaalBurgher]

Once you get your recipes it goes fast. Most communities will have several people working on this and if you don't then do some trading. Nothing in life that is good is easy

Overall I have no problem with the herbalism as is. I like it. It should remain as is.

It just makes no sense to require steel for a lock. And right now, there is not necessarily an option to trade for herbs. So yes it is much more time consuming for something that makes no sense in the first place.

So my only issue is with the steel for a lock.

[Grimmblut]

And right now, there is not necessarily an option to trade for herbs.

1. Ask in Global Chat for someone willing to trade herbs
2. Meet with that person somewhere on the map
3. Both of you drop an apple on two seperate tiles so that each creates a bag.
4. Drop your herbs over their bag and he must drop his herbs over yours.
5. Pick up your bag with your apple and his herbs.
6. Profit!