Too Much Entitlement

General discussion about Life is Feudal MMO and Life is Feudal: Your Own, The main section and backbone of the forums.

Yoshihito
 
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Too Much Entitlement

Post by Yoshihito » 18 Nov 2017, 20:04

I am getting tired of seeing post after post of people outraged by the issues they are having. Take a moment to calm down and listen to reason.

- The game is still effectively in beta.
- It's an ambitious game being made by relatively small team.
- Being in beta, bugs are a given.
- You should have waited to spend your money if you didn't know how betas work.
- Hell, you should have waited until the game was full launch if this gets your panties in a twist.

Be helpful and point out bugs and crashes to the devs. This stuff takes time and with our help, they can help you have a better experience.


Cyber_syrfer
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Cyber_syrfer » 18 Nov 2017, 20:08

i found a pretty big bug tbh..... the servers can't stay online for more than 20 min... feel free to pass that along


DoomBringer
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by DoomBringer » 18 Nov 2017, 20:10

Gotta love all these white knights defending the game cuz "muh beta"


InnocentFarmer
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by InnocentFarmer » 18 Nov 2017, 20:10

There's no use to this, people will be angry that's understandable. It's the internet after all and there's no stop to it. Some of them have taken free time to play this game, they are pissed and they have that free time now, they spend it seething in rage and only fueling it more and more by writing hateful posts, or by simply not accepting the fact that they possibly won't be able to play today, or tomorrow. They don't move on like normally you see a person go "Oh well bugger, well, it's a good time to clean up my house now." They find other things to do, but not all and those are the ones who you see writing up in here, don't mind them.


Greasegunner
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Greasegunner » 18 Nov 2017, 20:11

Surprised you could manage to see over the devs cheeks to see what you were typing, hell I'm even surprised you managed to reach the keyboard from all the way back there.

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Weedzy
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Weedzy » 18 Nov 2017, 20:12

People have every right to complain, they invested in something that was supposedly treated for those massive issues it currently has as an 'open beta'. People paid money to gain access to the game, while also keeping in mind the term 'beta': you'd expect massive drops in performance, small-medium bugs, a couple of crashes here and there. But you cannot longer put in the argument "it's a beta", since what is happening right now is early-alpha errors coming from the developer such as:

-The website/steam connection for accessing the MMO.
-The constant downtime of the servers.
-The connection errors it gives to players when they try to join in.
-The trouble with the premium stuff/tickets not being available to some.
-No steam library
-

The long waves which passed should have given the developers the time they needed to prepare. You cannot argue that they didn't have time, since they did, and some of the playerbase invested into those packages, expecting at least a SLUGGISH performance, since it is a beta.

It doesn't have SLUGGISH performance, you simply cannot get in the game and that pulls out a question mark for everybody. As a player here on the forum said, when you invest real money into something, you expect at least a tiny bit of profit. Well, here you didn't obtain anything. Not that tiny bit of satisfaction you were supposed to receive.


InnocentFarmer
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by InnocentFarmer » 18 Nov 2017, 20:14

Weedzy wrote:People have every right to complain, they invested in something that was supposedly treated for those massive issues it currently has as an 'open beta'. .


Now this I agree on, they have paid for the product, they have every right to complain.


Yoshihito
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Yoshihito » 18 Nov 2017, 20:14

Entitled kids these days...

I'm just as upset as you at these issues since I've had my fair share. But I also understand what goes in to making a game like this. Single player games are hard, but MMO's are a whole other thing. The point of a beta is to help test systems. If you can't see past that then I have no idea why you would back anything in beta.

I for one will be helping with whatever reports I can make.


InnocentFarmer
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by InnocentFarmer » 18 Nov 2017, 20:17

Yoshihito wrote:Entitled kids these days...

I'm just as upset as you at these issues since I've had my fair share. But I also understand what goes in to making a game like this. Single player games are hard, but MMO's are a whole other thing. The point of a beta is to help test systems. If you can't see past that then I have no idea why you would back anything in beta.

I for one will be helping with whatever reports I can make.


Now I personally think you are right in a way, the complaining I could do without it. I mean it won't speed up the process when everyone is screaming the same thing. The thing is though, they had expectations and when those are not met by the slightest, they have every right to be mad, disappointed or what ever. Everyone is not like you, time for you to accept that, some people get angry over things that others don't. Your thread is nothing but a breeding ground for bad blood between the members of this community. This kind of topic is where the lynch mobs gather, you are doing no one favours in here with this topic and I'd advise you to delete it.


Greasegunner
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Greasegunner » 18 Nov 2017, 20:18

Yoshihito wrote:Entitled kids these days...

I'm just as upset as you at these issues since I've had my fair share. But I also understand what goes in to making a game like this. Single player games are hard, but MMO's are a whole other thing. The point of a beta is to help test systems. If you can't see past that then I have no idea why you would back anything in beta.

I for one will be helping with whatever reports I can make.


The big issue with what you're saying is that even though it's in beta real estate is a big deal in this game and there are lots of people who paid for and are LITERALLY entitled to what they paid for and are unable to get into the game whilst almost 700 people are on the EU server getting almost an entire day head start while people who paid for a head start can't even get on the game.

It wouldn't be an issue if there was going to be another wipe after they fix these issues but there won't be, it's less of a beta and more of a soft launch. If this was going to be such an issue they should've released a limited open beta, maybe lasting two days, in order to stress test their services. Being that there is no wipe coming up, it really isn't acceptable just how bad the situation is. Bugs? Ok. This? No.


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 20:19

I actually am entitled, but that is a much longer story that is not much to do about this game.

I really am due more then most can fathom


That being said.


I spent all day yesterday downloading only to fail on last few bytes of download before extraction.

and now I can't install, does it really matter, not much, but it would have been nice to have gotten the Zealous Believers head start, or to reserve a player name, since I bought that years ago, but instead I will try download again and again as I spam the Install button.

But as I said, I really am entitled. and actually take great solace in knowing what I have earned, even if not yet paid.


mammalsauce
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by mammalsauce » 18 Nov 2017, 20:31

Weedzy wrote:People have every right to complain, they invested in something that was supposedly treated for those massive issues it currently has as an 'open beta'. People paid money to gain access to the game, while also keeping in mind the term 'beta': you'd expect massive drops in performance, small-medium bugs, a couple of crashes here and there. But you cannot longer put in the argument "it's a beta", since what is happening right now is early-alpha errors coming from the developer such as:

-The website/steam connection for accessing the MMO.
-The constant downtime of the servers.
-The connection errors it gives to players when they try to join in.
-The trouble with the premium stuff/tickets not being available to some.
-No steam library
-

The long waves which passed should have given the developers the time they needed to prepare. You cannot argue that they didn't have time, since they did, and some of the playerbase invested into those packages, expecting at least a SLUGGISH performance, since it is a beta.

It doesn't have SLUGGISH performance, you simply cannot get in the game and that pulls out a question mark for everybody. As a player here on the forum said, when you invest real money into something, you expect at least a tiny bit of profit. Well, here you didn't obtain anything. Not that tiny bit of satisfaction you were supposed to receive.


This guy gets it. You can't impartially say that this OBT launch wasn't a complete fucking disaster that could have been far better managed.

If I have to be partial though, despite how this is panning out, I still have to give these guys credit for at least trying to make good on their promise way back when that buying YO gives you access to the mmo once it's ready enough to play, and not just scum-bagging it in a way that many of us have grown accustomed to over recent years from other devs/pubs lofty promises.


Velius
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Velius » 18 Nov 2017, 20:50

Greasegunner wrote:

The big issue with what you're saying is that even though it's in beta real estate is a big deal in this game and there are lots of people who paid for and are LITERALLY entitled to what they paid for and are unable to get into the game whilst almost 700 people are on the EU server getting almost an entire day head start while people who paid for a head start can't even get on the game.


This pretty much sums it up. I'm guessing that a good deal of people didn't buy packs for a fancy title, or even premium status or currency. They bought it so they could be able to lay down claims to land before it was taken. LiF has always been about speed. If you can't get established fast enough in a good location you are likely going to get obliterated. While I was unable to purchase a pack due to financial reasons, prior to the beta I sorely wish I had because I realize what a game-changer 24 hours can be in this game.


Lazzie_Puca
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Lazzie_Puca » 18 Nov 2017, 20:51

Well, the bright side is you can look at the forums and blacklist the whiners from potentially joining your guild. Toxic here will be Toxic there.


Greasegunner
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Greasegunner » 18 Nov 2017, 20:55

How dare you demand a certain level of quality and professionalism. You toxic scum.


Lazzie_Puca
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Lazzie_Puca » 18 Nov 2017, 20:58

Velius wrote:
Greasegunner wrote:

The big issue with what you're saying is that even though it's in beta real estate is a big deal in this game and there are lots of people who paid for and are LITERALLY entitled to what they paid for and are unable to get into the game whilst almost 700 people are on the EU server getting almost an entire day head start while people who paid for a head start can't even get on the game.


This pretty much sums it up. I'm guessing that a good deal of people didn't buy packs for a fancy title, or even premium status or currency. They bought it so they could be able to lay down claims to land before it was taken. LiF has always been about speed. If you can't get established fast enough in a good location you are likely going to get obliterated. While I was unable to purchase a pack due to financial reasons, prior to the beta I sorely wish I had because I realize what a game-changer 24 hours can be in this game.


It would make a difference, but in what way. One could theorize that getting a claim on a 'hot' spot would be worse than settling out in the boonies. I personally think the meat and potatoes of the game is faction interaction and politics, highly contested land will likely just get you bullied away if you don't have the manpower while meaningful diplomacy and conflict could be had elsewhere.


Greasegunner
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Greasegunner » 18 Nov 2017, 21:02

Lazzie_Puca wrote:
It would make a difference, but in what way. One could theorize that getting a claim on a 'hot' spot would be worse than settling out in the boonies. I personally think the meat and potatoes of the game is faction interaction and politics, highly contested land will likely just get you bullied away if you don't have the manpower while meaningful diplomacy and conflict could be had elsewhere.


In the way that a large group of players now have an unfair advantage not only in real estate but in development, knowing full well this makes it more likely they will simply use this to lord over and take advantage of newer players. But of course the biggest and most glaring issue is that people who, again, LITERALLY paid for a head start not only did not get a head start but are now way behind in development.


Lazzie_Puca
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Lazzie_Puca » 18 Nov 2017, 21:12

Greasegunner wrote:
Lazzie_Puca wrote:
It would make a difference, but in what way. One could theorize that getting a claim on a 'hot' spot would be worse than settling out in the boonies. I personally think the meat and potatoes of the game is faction interaction and politics, highly contested land will likely just get you bullied away if you don't have the manpower while meaningful diplomacy and conflict could be had elsewhere.


In the way that a large group of players now have an unfair advantage not only in real estate but in development, knowing full well this makes it more likely they will simply use this to lord over and take advantage of newer players. But of course the biggest and most glaring issue is that people who, again, LITERALLY paid for a head start not only did not get a head start but are now way behind in development.

I get it, but there is a cost to contest such lands. Whose to say you'll team will end up the victor, and may perhaps such time for the guild would be better invested in securing safe lands and making favorable alliances. Consolidating power rather than just fighting a war of attrition? The game is what you make it though, I won't say you should play this way or that if your mind is set.


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 21:30

I have a plan where to build, and figuring with a thousand players, I might have to be even a bit more remote.

But honestly if the game was all about a few hours making a big difference, the game would never get new players over time. And if I got the world size right it will take me hours to even get to my location anyways, considering the map size.

Although I do agree having the ability to start when everyone else does, or even earlier if that was a perk with being an early supporter would be nice. But I will be stat raising slowly, hopefully safely away from the big urban developments.

Although this conversation brings up a good point.
For a MMO to stay relevant, they probably would be adding new areas over time anyways, islands, or new land, or changes in terrain or something for new players over time. So that there is a chance for a new guild to develop or new players to get into the game and level up and make new towns.

The problem is when something is a little unfair, it is easy to whine, when it is always unfair, the problem is the system, and that becomes what to think about, and usually with a laugh. I don't conclude internet games are at that level of importance for anyone to whine about, but the staff of the games, since only for them is this development more then a game.

As far as the game, I am still skeptical, because I downloaded 5 or 6 times and never got it to install, now I can't download, but maybe my situation is unique, then again, I am only playing this game, or waiting to play, while I am waiting for the pay that is entitled to be sent to me to arrive(long story). And that is funny in itself.

Waiting to get paid, so I guess I will play a game...
where...
I wait to play the game...

Isn't that funny :)

So while waiting I post in a forum...
not expecting any replies...


AlexVestin
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by AlexVestin » 18 Nov 2017, 21:33

Greasegunner wrote:But of course the biggest and most glaring issue is that people who, again, LITERALLY paid for a head start not only did not get a head start but are now way behind in development.


How are they behind in development? Aren't all just on the same level now?

Also. Where when you buy a starter pack is it implied that you get to start early?
To me that's just seems like an added bonus, visible to those that paid attention to the news feed.
It's not what you pay for, as in, it's not what you pay for.


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 21:44

to the 600 or so people in the forums instead of in the games.

The easiest way to feel better about the situation.

Just think to yourself how pissed those playing in the game are going to be after they do a full MMO wipe when they get this recent round of bugs fixed.

Although my 90 day subscription is ticking down since I enabled it to install a couple days ago, and still have not got a workable version installed. first 3 days spent posting here :) that does bother me a little bit, but my play style is not to rush anyways, so not worried about head start other then understanding principle of it.


CombattMagoo
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by CombattMagoo » 18 Nov 2017, 21:45

This launch should have been better. Half the players cant even log in.

Its really bad.


Velius
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Velius » 18 Nov 2017, 21:52

Lazzie_Puca wrote:I get it, but there is a cost to contest such lands. Whose to say you'll team will end up the victor, and may perhaps such time for the guild would be better invested in securing safe lands and making favorable alliances. Consolidating power rather than just fighting a war of attrition? The game is what you make it though, I won't say you should play this way or that if your mind is set.


Therein lies the entire reasoning that you need to be fast. With a 24-hour jump plus 36 hours worth of x2 skill gain and whatever bonuses premium confers, a clan can have stone walls, reinforced gates, iron/steel weapons, and archers. They will be able to defend the position far better than if everyone started at the same time.

They can then assert themselves on the surrounding settlements and broker treaties for resources in exchange for protection, provisions, etc. as well as form alliances. Being in a strong position would make them all the more attractive as an ally rather than an enemy.

Never walk into a fair fight when walking into an unfair fight is an option.


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 21:55

Lynchje wrote:This launch should have been better. Half the players cant even log in.

Its really bad.



Unless we be the bad half of the players

:sorry:


Ok that can't be it

:angel:

where not the bad half, we are the board half (see the pun)

And note the nuke, Oppenheimer, Robert

bad to bOaRd :D


Velius
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Velius » 18 Nov 2017, 22:00

Zathurus wrote:Although my 90 day subscription is ticking down since I enabled it to install a couple days ago.


Incidentally Zath, I can't tell since you have the Alpha Tester forum title whether you bout in at Zealot or not, but if so don't forget you now have a 120-day sub.


AlexTaldren
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by AlexTaldren » 18 Nov 2017, 22:03

You are entitled to something you pay for in a voluntary transaction. Period. "Entitlement" to things you haven't earned is a problem, yes.

If people demanded a free game because they don't want to pay for it, that's the false feeling of entitlement. When you buy something and want it in exchange for your money, that means you are entitled to it.


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 22:22

Velius wrote:Incidentally Zath, I can't tell since you have the Alpha Tester forum title whether you bout in at Zealot or not, but if so don't forget you now have a 120-day sub.


Yea I got the zealot, or so it says in the email, and I pretty sure I bought largest package back in 2014,

I didn't know the days 30 for alpha, 90 for zealot stacked, thanks


Zathurus
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by Zathurus » 18 Nov 2017, 22:27

AlexTaldren wrote: When you buy something and want it in exchange for your money, that means you are entitled to it.


"You are entitled to have what I say you have" - Monarchy system

You presume the current state of existence has a rule set and a legal systems. (For instance in the USA the law system currently is not in effect)

Most systems are actually closer to monarchy and only talk about laws to keep the peasants in line, although no need to give examples, the idea that some law entitles you to something, only matters if the systems in place enforce those agreements.

Feudal systems, and unfortunately most current systems only recognize what you can take as rule of law (because I can rule set).

Although I am entitled to be paid, but that is not about this game, but since you are delving into meaning of words, you need to also think about the systems those words operate in.

Or...
Look at the title.
And
You are overruled!


AlexVestin
 
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by AlexVestin » 18 Nov 2017, 22:45

I still would not call it bad. It's rather normal for launches like this to overload servers and the like.

Nobody is really losing anything. They still get their credits, premium time, skins and all else they paid for.


AlexTaldren
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Re: Too Much Entitlement

Post by AlexTaldren » 18 Nov 2017, 22:52

Zathurus wrote:
AlexTaldren wrote: When you buy something and want it in exchange for your money, that means you are entitled to it.


"You are entitled to have what I say you have" - Monarchy system

You presume the current state of existence has a rule set and a legal systems. (For instance in the USA the law system currently is not in effect)

Most systems are actually closer to monarchy and only talk about laws to keep the peasants in line, although no need to give examples, the idea that some law entitles you to something, only matters if the systems in place enforce those agreements.

Feudal systems, and unfortunately most current systems only recognize what you can take as rule of law (because I can rule set).

Although I am entitled to be paid, but that is not about this game, but since you are delving into meaning of words, you need to also think about the systems those words operate in.

Or...
Look at the title.
And
You are overruled!


No, I make no presumption regarding the current legal system. What I'm stating is a philosophical and moral truth. I don't care about the legal definition of "entitlement."

Just because kings, priests, gods, mystics, or politicians attempt to warp reality or bend it to suit their needs is irrelevant. A is A. There is an objective reality to these things. What I earn is mine by the virtue of the fact that I earned it.

People here entered into a voluntary exchange with the publishers of this game. My point is that the OP is making the claim that their money and voluntary action is meaningless. That is incorrect. They are entitled to receive the product they purchased--or a refund. It's just that simple.

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