Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Logrinn]

Hi everyones.

I notice an interresting logic in peacefull skills progression. Prospecting to mining to smelting etc...

however, when it comes to military skills I am doubtfull.
how is it we can't swirl a spear when it was the very first weapon mankind masterised after rough stone?
How is it we have to learn how to swing a sling to learn how to wear leather armor to learn how to use a bow? Oo

please think military skill page again, pleeeease!
Padded and leather should be independant, chain mail, scale and plate be successive.
Polearms, blades, bows (before crossbows) be accessible with a militia service prerequised level.
Horse handling should lead to lancing and other horseback weapon handling.

Your game is way too rich to let the gameplay stumble on that kind of (to my mind) nonsenses.

thank you.

[Heinrich_von_Leipa]

I kind of agree, really. I understand their concerns and why they made it the way it currently is, but I also would prefer some more category based trees.

For instance:

"Riding Tree": (As right now, just take out the mail armour icon)

"Armour Tree": Padded armour, then leather armour, then scale armour, then mail armour, then plate armour

"Blade Tree": Single handed blades, then double handed blades, then axe and mace mastery, then 2-handed axes mastery

"other Tree": Unarmed combat, then spear mastery, then piercing mastery, then poleaxe mastery,

"have no name yet Tree": Shield mastery, then combat preparation, then two handed blunt mastery, then war cries

"Archer Tree": Throwing weaponry, then crossbows, then bows



The above example is just a totally messed up rough idea. But you see that it is much more structured and you can decide how to give your points to get rather good armour and weaker weapons or weaker armour but better weapons. So if you insist, for instance, to become a full plate armoured two-handed sword fighter - go ahead and skill the armour tree all the way up and skill the blade tree to 2hander swords but then you will most likely lack of points to also level the archery tree up. That way the devs fear of allowing people to become "hybrids" or "can-do-it-all warriors" doesn't happen that much either. If you want to be a good archer, skill all the archer tree up to get the Longbow, then get the Cobat preparation skills as skirmisher and then you'll lack of points to get plate armour, so you'll stick with padded or leather or perhaps mail armour. So where's that creating a "hybrid" problem? But it makes much more sense and makes it way easier to actually get weapons and armour after starting a new village.

[Thokan]

It is clearly in place for balancing as well as logic. And one can assume it will be rebalanced.

[Apep]

What I don't understand is why crossbow skills come before bow skills?

[Logrinn]

@Apep: if it is the only thng you don t understand, then you are much smarter than I am ^^

[Scroll_Tro0L]

I looked over their skills progression again and it makes sense. Each row is akin to a "class". Also, because of how the skills work, if you were going to be a knight-type of person, imagine how many points it would take to get to the end of multiple trees.

[Apep]

@Apep: if it is the only thng you don t understand, then you are much smarter than I am ^^

It's not the only thing, but it's what I just can't seem to get in regards of the skill system of the game. I understand that crossbows are easier to use than bows, but still, for me it just seems weird. \

[Viik]

It seams that the way how system is designed right now is to have some meta classes with combination of civil/military skills in regards to attributes.
For example, blacksmith/berserker, architect/cavalry. Just from the perspective of what kind of bonuses you get from relevant attributes.
At the same time, as you progress in your skills, bonus from attributes becomes smaller and smaller, according to skill calculator.
So as you get better and better in specific branch of skills that you choose, your attributes become irrelevant and you choose them solely from perspective of their basic effect - more strength = more damage, more agility = higher speed. Essentially meta combination of civil/military combination disappears, which I think is a good news in long term.

I agree with previous poster in respect to armor progression - what is the point to progress in militia branch if you can get weapons with highest damage output and armor just by getting some leather and rope. It's easier to make a 10 royal plates right now than a single padded armor simply because of the issues with tailoring skill.

[Viik]

I looked over their skills progression again and it makes sense. Each row is akin to a "class". Also, because of how the skills work, if you were going to be a knight-type of person, imagine how many points it would take to get to the end of multiple trees.

As of now, you can have full cavalry branch +plate +1h sword if you raise your intelligence properly:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymhs3sggrkke28k/Knight.jpg?dl=0

This could be nicely combined with a complete civil branch plus some extra skill, seams good for healer profession as you don't need to carry a lot of heavy stuff in your pockets.

[VindicteMortis]

What I don't understand is why crossbow skills come before bow skills?

Crossbows were used historically because they're simple and almost any peasant could be given one.

Bows on the otherhand required years of training and in some cases such as longbows, needed training from an early age. Making trained archers incredibly expensive and in short supply.

[Savataba]

How I'd like to see the combat tree:

"Riding Tree": Horseback riding>War Horses>Mounted Fighting>Heavy Warhorses>Lancing

"Armour Tree": Padded Armour>Leather Armour>Mail Armour>Scale Armour>Plate Armour

"1 Hand Tree": Unarmed Combat>Axe & Mace>1-Handed Blades>War Cries>Piercing

"2 Hand Tree": Spear>2-Handed Axes>2-Handed Blunt>Poleaxe>2-Handed Blades

"Ranged Tree": Shield>Throwing Weaponry>Bow>Crossbows>Demolition

"Professional Soldier Tree": Militia>Unit Formation>Drill>Combat Preparation>Battle survival(First aid)

Equipment regulated to the randoms on page 3

Want to be an Archer?
Padded Armour(60)>Leather Armour(60)
Unarmed Combat(60)>Axe & Mace(60)
Shield(60)>Throwing Weaponry(60)>Bow(100)
Militia(60)>Unit Formation(60)>Drill(60)
Total:640

Want to be a front line sword man?
Unarmed Combat(60)>Axe & Mace(60)>1-Handed Blades(60)
Padded Armour(60)>Leather Armour(60)>Mail Armour(60)
Shield(60)
Militia(60)>Unit Formation(60)>Drill(60)>Combat Preparation(30)
Total:630

Heavy armored knight?
Horseback riding(60)>War Horses(60)>Mounted Fighting(60)>Heavy Warhorses(30)
Padded Armour(60)>Leather Armour(60)>Mail Armour(60)>Scale Armour(60)>Plate Armour(60)
Shield(30)
Unarmed Combat(60)>Axe & Mace(30)
Total:630



"Riding Tree"
Horseback riding - 0=Ride horses, 30=Better control, 60=Better speed, 90=Better carry cap, 100=?
War Horses - 0=Train war, 30=Train Hardy, 60=Train Heavy, 90=Train spirited, 100=Train Royal
Mounted Fighting - 0=1-Handed use, 30=faster attacks, 60=dismount chance, 90=dismount immunity, 100=trickmove?
Heavy Warhorses - 0=Ride Heavy, 30=Better speed, 60=Damage reduction, 90=Unstoppable/knockdown, 100=earth tremble???
Lancing - 0=Use lances, 30=speed increase, 60=better aiming, 90=block increase, 100=decorated lance

"Armour Tree"
Padded Armour - 0=Novice, 30=Encumbrance, 60=Regular, 90=Veteran, 100=Royal
Leather Armour - 0=Novice, 30=Encumbrance, 60=Regular, 90=Veteran, 100=Royal
Mail Armour - 0=Novice, 30=Encumbrance, 60=Regular, 90=Veteran, 100=Royal
Scale Armour - 0=Novice, 30=Encumbrance, 60=Regular, 90=Veteran, 100=Royal
Plate Armour - 0=Novice, 30=Encumbrance, 60=Regular, 90=Veteran, 100=Royal

"1 Hand Tree"
Unarmed Combat - 0=attack & parry spears, 30=Speed increase, 60=Disarm, 90=Knockout, 100=trickmove?
Axe & Mace - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=Combo, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?
1-Handed Blades - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=Combo, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?
War Cries - 0=1 in use, 30=coward, 60=arghhhh, 90=you are mine, 100=taunt
Piercing - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=Combo, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?

"2 Hand Tree"
Spear - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=pike wall, 90=knockdown, 100=trickmove?
2-Handed Axes - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=pounce?, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?
2-Handed Blunt - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=Combo, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?
Poleaxe - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=pounce?, 90=knockdown, 100=trickmove?
2-Handed Blades - 0=Use, 30=Speed increase, 60=Combo, 90=Combo, 100=trickmove?

"Ranged Tree"
Shield - 0=use, 30=durability, 60=bash, 90=run&block, 100=trickmove?
Throwing Weaponry - 0=sling*(& throw torches), 30=knives, 60=axes&Javs, 90=Naphtha grenades*(Rather have axes), 100=arrows/bolts
Bow - 0=use, 30=reload speed, 60=arrow to knee, 90=volley, 100=signal/flaming
Crossbows - 0=use, 30=reload speed, 60=stopping, 90=Piercing, 100=signal/flaming
Demolition - 0=throw torches*(Rather have man ladders), 30=hammers*(Rather have man ram), 60=man ram/ladders*(Rather have Naphtha grenades), 90=man trebuchet, 100=shoot with dead bodies

"Professional Soldier Tree"
Militia - 0=use militia weapons, 30=Speed increase, 60=Damage increase, 90=Thrust blocking, 100=trickmove?
Unit Formation - 0=Formations, 30=hold order, 60=charge, 90=move, 100=flag
Drill - 0=learn tier 1, 30=learn tier 2, 60=learn tier 3, 90=learn tier 4, 100=learn tier 5
Combat Preparation - 0=field tent, 30=arrowstand, 60=pike wall, 90=pavise, 100=decorated field tent
Battle survival(First aid) - 0=bandage limbs, 30=bandage torso, 60=hard/soft loss chance, 90=bandage head, 100=hard/soft loss chance


Equipment - 0=weapon maintenance, 30=armor/shield maintenance, 60=recover ammo, 90=poison 1-hand, 100=flaming weapon



Battle survival(First aid) & Equipment could be swapped, Shield & Throwing Weaponry could be swapped

Spears, axes, & maces were easy to produce, hence cheaper armies had more of them untill the local economy could support the time & cost of sword production.
Bows first. Yes it takes a lot more training, but even an iron tipped broad head arrow will not penitrate mail & padding. While the crossbow will.
2-hand swords are very difficult to create as an iron sword of that size would have broke, while 2 hand axes & hammers are easier to create.

"Riding Tree": (As right now, just take out the mail armour icon)

"Armour Tree": Padded armour, then leather armour, then scale armour, then mail armour, then plate armour

"Blade Tree": Single handed blades, then double handed blades, then axe and mace mastery, then 2-handed axes mastery

"other Tree": Unarmed combat, then spear mastery, then piercing mastery, then poleaxe mastery,

"have no name yet Tree": Shield mastery, then combat preparation, then two handed blunt mastery, then war cries

"Archer Tree": Throwing weaponry, then crossbows, then bows

[Gatheron]

@Apep: if it is the only thng you don t understand, then you are much smarter than I am ^^

It's not the only thing, but it's what I just can't seem to get in regards of the skill system of the game. I understand that crossbows are easier to use than bows, but still, for me it just seems weird. \

Crossbows are much easier than a regular bow in real life, back in the medieval age learning how to use the bow took years. Instead of doing the training they made the crossbow and gave them to untrained peasants to defend the castle, Crossbows also have a lower fire rate, but can do lots of damage and bows have a high fire rate and moderate damage.

[Apep]

Yes, as I said I -do- understand that crossbows are much easier to use, but maintaining and making them actually needed more resources and knowledge than a bow. Also they were more expensive. For me, shortbows would seem to be the first step - and then crossbows and more advanced bows like recurves or longbows.

[VindicteMortis]

Yes, as I said I -do- understand that crossbows are much easier to use, but maintaining and making them actually needed more resources and knowledge than a bow. Also they were more expensive. For me, shortbows would seem to be the first step - and then crossbows and more advanced bows like recurves or longbows.

Are you talking about making them or using them?

Because this is about combat skills, and a crossbow is infinitely more easy to use than even a simple bow.