How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

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Azzerhoden
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How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Azzerhoden » 15 Apr 2017, 19:38

As LIF has evolved, certain ideas and skills have evolved as well. One skill that has fallen behind the development curve is the skill Piety. Originally intended to add a server wide distinction and abilities to those with a high piety level, its move out of the crafting skill line has reduced the trade-off for having it. Now almost everyone tries to raise it to reduce skill loss as well as granting a fast travel mechanism. The latter is rather contentious for multiple reasons. The secondary uses of piety provide value, but since recall is a base 0 skill with a cooldown, it’s now extremely difficult to train up. Here is how I would change the piety skill line.

Piety:
  • Level 0: Can Praise God (alignment increases, can be used once per day).
  • Level 30: Can bless people calling upon "God's Mercy" that removes death penalty during PvP events (sieges/battles/Judgement Hour)
  • Level 60: Can bless people calling upon "God's Love" that increases luck by 3.
  • Level 90: Can bless a monument, adding a reduced death penalty for every guild member within the realm claim. Must be cast daily. Casting uses hard stamina from the strain of the blessing. Possibly use monument maintenance points as well.
  • Level 100: Can remove/reduce the length of ‘Rez sickness’ (similar to healing)

Recall/Homecoming:
The arguments against players being able to recall to their bind point are:
  • Unrealistic for a game where magic does not exist.
  • Allows players to abuse overburdened movement.
  • Reduces danger from hostiles.
  • Allows players to quickly return home when being raided.
For the first point, all games have some mechanic that is unrealistic. In fact, there is nothing more unrealistic that respawning after being killed, carrying an animal in your backpack, the current healing mechanics, using /stuck to move to a previous spot, or petitioning a GM to come help you ‘fix something’. The simple fact is that because this is a game, things will happen to players when moving around the game world, and ‘recall’ is the only realistic way to resolve it. No one will play a game where their character can get stuck and the only outcome is to petition a GM or ‘starve to death’.

For the other listed arguments against ‘recall’, I consider them perfectly valid. However, the solution is not to ‘remove the mechanic’. The solution is to ‘balance the mechanic’. My solution:
  • Remove ‘recall’ from the piety skill and add it as part of movement.
  • Set the cooldown back to 30 minutes and modify the character table so the cooldown is not reset on a game restart (similar to ‘LastTimeUsedPraiseYourGodAbility’ table value).
  • Remove chance to fail when using recall.
  • Limit excessive weight being carried to the skill in movement. So a movement skill of 25 would allow you to be 25% overburdened when you recall.
  • Add ‘resurrection’ sickness to the player after they recall, similar to when a player dies.
The above will reduce the use of ‘recall’ by players and resolves all the arguments against ‘recall’ but one, and that is the reduced danger from hostiles.

For this I would argue that without some form of fast travel, trade in the game will actually be reduced to a bare minimum as it will become too much of a hassle traveling half way around the world (realistically players will meet in the starting city) and then traveling back. Instead players will either produce what they need themselves, or go without. Trade exists when one party finds it easier to acquire goods from someone else rather than producing it themselves. So the best method of ensuring ‘targets’ is to ensure a healthy trading system by making travel easier. Having ‘recall’ means that ‘targets’ still have to travel to a destination with either items or currency, so as in the real world, most ‘road agents’ will live just outside popular trading destinations.

Finally, many folks have expressed a desire for a ‘church’ type building. I’d recommend having one that requires lots of metals (copper, silver, gold). For a benefit of having a church, I would add a luck bonus to every guild member when they are within the realm claim.

I am sure that some of this has been previously suggested by other players. Apologies for not remembering who and where, but your ideas were clearly good enough to cement within my subconscious. For those who disagree with the above, please post your reasoned arguments along with your view point.
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Jade
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Jade » 15 Apr 2017, 20:20

Didn't know you were working on this, but got to say I love everything mentioned.

The game defo needs a church building that offers a bonus, much like Darkfall did really.
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Wulfstar
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Wulfstar » 16 Apr 2017, 02:04

I like those proposed changes. It makes a lot more sense. And yes please, we NEED a Church building!

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Brother
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Brother » 16 Apr 2017, 14:58

I'm hugely in favor of everything above. Having "recall" separate from piety makes a ton of sense, especially with the 30 minute cooldown.

The one thing I'd modify - so long as we're continuing with wishful thinking - is that I'd love to see three separate models for churches. Chapel (Construction), Church (Masonry), and Cathedral (Architecture) each with increasing alignment or luck bonuses to those who use it after the "Cardinal" or the "Pope" presents a sermon - identical to the mentoring/school mechanic.

I know the devs are fully aware of the church request as it's been on the voted features page since as early as 2015, but the trick now is somehow getting them to see your other ideas. Maybe you could tactfully craft something into the FAQ? That's the only thread that's guaranteed to get a devs eyes - but I'm sure you know that as well as I do :)

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Azzerhoden
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Azzerhoden » 16 Apr 2017, 15:27

Brother wrote:I'm hugely in favor of everything above. Having "recall" separate from piety makes a ton of sense, especially with the 30 minute cooldown.

The one thing I'd modify - so long as we're continuing with wishful thinking - is that I'd love to see three separate models for churches. Chapel (Construction), Church (Masonry), and Cathedral (Architecture) each with increasing alignment or luck bonuses to those who use it after the "Cardinal" or the "Pope" presents a sermon - identical to the mentoring/school mechanic.

I know the devs are fully aware of the church request as it's been on the voted features page since as early as 2015, but the trick now is somehow getting them to see your other ideas. Maybe you could tactfully craft something into the FAQ? That's the only thread that's guaranteed to get a devs eyes - but I'm sure you know that as well as I do :)


Going to disagree with you on a couple points. I would not call this wishful thinking or that the FAQ is the only thread that the devs read. I've seen numerous player ideas get implemented, even some of my own. They just don't comment in most threads, and given how every thing the write is considered to be a binding contract by a lot of players, who can blame them?

I think I read your ideas for the three church types before, and I kinda like them, but what type of bonuses should they grant? I think I'd like the idea better if they granted different bonuses, but only one could be active at any time. I think three stacked bonuses would be too much
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Hallegra
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Hallegra » 16 Apr 2017, 20:14

Love this idea. Would be a great way to balance both piety and homecoming as a whole in the gameworld


Nothing_Personal
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Nothing_Personal » 17 Apr 2017, 01:18

Azzerhoden wrote:
Brother wrote:I'm hugely in favor of everything above. Having "recall" separate from piety makes a ton of sense, especially with the 30 minute cooldown.

The one thing I'd modify - so long as we're continuing with wishful thinking - is that I'd love to see three separate models for churches. Chapel (Construction), Church (Masonry), and Cathedral (Architecture) each with increasing alignment or luck bonuses to those who use it after the "Cardinal" or the "Pope" presents a sermon - identical to the mentoring/school mechanic.

I know the devs are fully aware of the church request as it's been on the voted features page since as early as 2015, but the trick now is somehow getting them to see your other ideas. Maybe you could tactfully craft something into the FAQ? That's the only thread that's guaranteed to get a devs eyes - but I'm sure you know that as well as I do :)


Going to disagree with you on a couple points. I would not call this wishful thinking or that the FAQ is the only thread that the devs read. I've seen numerous player ideas get implemented, even some of my own. They just don't comment in most threads, and given how every thing the write is considered to be a binding contract by a lot of players, who can blame them?

I think I read your ideas for the three church types before, and I kinda like them, but what type of bonuses should they grant? I think I'd like the idea better if they granted different bonuses, but only one could be active at any time. I think three stacked bonuses would be too much


Why not just have the Church building behave sort of as a monument, where it can be upgraded instead of destroying/building a better one? It can be the same foundation size and just get taller....

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Azzerhoden
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Azzerhoden » 20 Apr 2017, 22:01

It unanimous. All active LIF players like this new system. Please implemented ASAP. ;)
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GavinMcStine
 
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by GavinMcStine » 22 Apr 2017, 14:48

I've had an issue where I was trapped in a mine that I couldn't get out of, so I tried digging myself out, I used up all my picks and had stone/earth I could not drop.

If you can't use the recall skill when over burdened and can't drop anything because your in a mine. There needs to be a delete item/box/button so one can delete weight.

Edit: and that could be abused by deleting weight without needing to drop it could be used to quicken movement.

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Khan-
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Re: How To Update Piety and Resolve Recall/Homecoming

Post by Khan- » 22 Apr 2017, 14:56

the prayer is changing :)

Are you sure you want to Pray for Homecoming? The Gods will return you home along with everything you have equipped, but all items carried will be left behind.


I believe it will be in the next mmo test :)
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