Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Slaieth]

You literally just killed the game with this announcement. This will destroy the player base. The idea of a sandbox mmorpg is to have a community of all different kind of players mended together into one world. The non-pvpers depend on the pvpers to defend them, and the pvpers depend on the non-pvpers to help craft bases/armors/weapons. But the non-pvpers, having the alternative option to make their own world and make it "NO PVP", will happily craft/build together with their friends on private servers. Servers that they can kick users from for no reason at all.

From my understanding, this'll be treated like a seperate game which raises a brow because if players want to transition to standard servers from LIF:YW, it'll be impossible to do so. Correct me if I'm wrong but progress on LIF:YW with characters will not be connected to character progression on the standard server. So either people will have to buy both, or one out of the two. This'll create a break in the population for the standard server.

Not to mention, you said there would be the possibility for modding/altering the game on private servers. What's to say someone doesn't strike gold with an idea and everyone wants to play there instead of on the standard server. I know you said there would be a player limit, but there's nothing to stop them from opening up multiple servers with same modded files.

This is a sandbox game that requires population to be fully enjoyable. To split the population will cause LiF to not achieve it's full potential with multiple warring guilds etcs.

[Virdill]

Unfortunately, i agree
i do not want to be annoying, you have a reason for doing this of course, but it is a very bad compromise.
Is not that what was to be Lif, and although it can be understood as a small change, it is not, change a lot

I will remain waiting to official Lif

[Acebane]

I also agree. I wanted one big sandbox world with all the players there. A niche game like this will already have problems with population. Splitting the population will just make it very hard for the game to grow and have a booming world.

At this rate, it'll end up with a few power house guilds and a very small amount of smaller guilds. Territory control will not function as it's suppose to with a small population.

I suppose time will tell, but I think that prediction is a fair one.

[Siegbert]

Yeah, gotta agree, too.

This game needs to be really well crafted in the end to compensate this blow...
I was interested in LiF because it started as a MMO right away. Coming from Mount&Blade I have experience with small server sollutions in this kind of games and I always found it to be lacking a huge persistent game world (Persistent World mod is fun but still not the real deal)

I have no interest in a non-MMO LiF and I too think it will split up the community.

I guess this was done to get some extra money and I'm fine with that motivation. Maybe the fact that modding will be encouraged you could get some art assets to plant over to the main game.

But all in all I find it to be an unnecessary distraction.

[Tantal]

I also think that this is a big mistake.

I cannot imagine that playing on a server with 64 people is really funny. You cannot really interact with other people. It is basically one or two guilds and a few strangers.

And I agree with the comments before that the player base will be split and at least at the moment confused.

I really hope that in the end it will work out fine for the project(s) but I fear that the idea of LiF is not suitable to make 2 games out of it and split it apart.

[Crusader316]

I would have to agree. I can only see problems with this. I hope it won't affect the main game too much.

I'm not too worried though, the dev team have made a lot of wise decision this far, whatever they decide to do I think it will turn out alright. But yeah it does sound like a strange decision for an mmo.

[Arrakis]

People, people! Come on, it seems like you didn't fully understand how it's supposed to work. Nothing was taken from LiF, it didn't lose it's charm, instead new feature has been added to what there already is. When you will buy a game you will be able not only to access the main servers but also to create your own, where you will be able to learn the game mechanics much faster and understand the game better looking from different perspective. This is also a window of opportunity for those who don't want to be endangered by mean pkers and just live in peace. There will still be mmorpg, nothing has changed in this matter, LiF:YO will be just an alternative for people, who just want to play in small group of friends and screw around with gm tools, but other than that everybody will eventually crave for more, and then people will join the main servers and start real adventure. So once again I'll repeat this, adding LiF:YO will NOT affect the main servers at all, this will be just your private sandbox where you will be able to do whatever you want with whoever you want.

[Acebane]

People, people! Come on, it seems like you didn't fully understand how it's supposed to work. Nothing was taken from LiF, it didn't lose it's charm, instead new feature has been added to what there already is. When you will buy a game you will be able not only to access the main servers but also to create your own, where you will be able to learn the game mechanics much faster and understand the game better looking from different perspective. This is also a window of opportunity for those who don't want to be endangered by mean pkers and just live in peace. There will still be mmorpg, nothing has changed in this matter, LiF:YO will be just an alternative for people, who just want to play in small group of friends and screw around with gm tools, but other than that everybody will eventually crave for more, and then people will join the main servers and start real adventure. So once again I'll repeat this, adding LiF:YO will NOT affect the main servers at all, this will be just your private sandbox where you will be able to do whatever you want with whoever you want.

Are you sure you won't have to pay for both? Bobik posts in FAQ -

1. Where do I get the client and how much does it cost?
"We plan to distribute it on Steam. Price will be announced later, but currently we plan to have it around 20-30€."

17. So i have a question. If i will buy Life is feudal YO can i play later on global server of Life is feudal or i need to pay again for something?
"You will still have to purchase a ticket for a character to enter the main game world of the official servers. LiF:YO and LiF are two separate games. "

Wouldn't that mean I have to pay for both ? A ticket to go to main island on main server. Then LIF:YW to play on a private server with my friends.

Everyone I know intends to play with a small group of friends for the most part. The fact that they're separate and each will cost money will discourage players from playing on both. Even then, playing on both will take away time spent on the main server and may hurt sales for the main game. Sure, technically people should crave the real big world, but there will be those who don't. And that will affect the main server's population, thus affecting the main server in a negative way.

As to "learning the game mechanics in private", I don't see why that's necessary. Why is that even an option? In a sandbox environment, the best way to learn is with the population in which people will learn from each other and teach newer players the ropes later. People would learn game mechanics just about as fast on the main server. Speaking of that, won't they still have "tutorial island" with handicaps to teach mechanics? The only difference is allowing the server hoster to see the inner workings of LIF's systems and alter those systems to their liking.

I think we all for the most part want that Mount and blade persistent open world feel. Giving alternatives to that will hinder the main server's population.

[Siegbert]

This is also a window of opportunity for those who don't want to be endangered by mean pkers and just live in peace.

I get that, but it's unnecessary and distracting. People should be encouraged to get in contact with player guilds who will ensure their safety, since life is supposed to be feudal, wasn't it? ;P

[Arrakis]

The way I see it people who aren't interested in LiF:YO shouldn't really care about it and just wait for mmo as it won't be affected by it in any way.

[Virdill]

So the official alpha LiF start anyway? we can play the alpha, beta and release of the official server?

[Siegbert]

So the official alpha LiF start anyway? we can play the alpha, beta and release of the official server?

Obviously. But the alpha start is going to be delayed yet another weeks to months this way, I take it.

[Bobik]

Yes, official alpha will still be possible and we will still do our best to make a stable servers.

There are numerous reasons behind LiF:YO. I literally had a whole week of sleepless nights (I am not joking.) weighting all cons and pros. Some of those reasons are financial also. We have really small team for such a huge project. It was known to us, but I had obviously underestimated multinodes system complexity and amount of bugs it had produced and will produce.

Fixing those bugs had taken a lot of efforts and will take more. Investors' grip on my neck is tightening once more. It was easier since greenlight campaign and semi good flow of donations, but now it is all grim as it was after our failed indiegogo.com campaign.

As it was stated above, LiF MMO will not suffer in any way from LiF:YO only by some amount of development speed, which in the end might be even faster. Amount of features that 5 developers can produce in 6 month, might be less then amount of features produced by 1 developer in 3 months and then 10 developers in next 3 months

LiF MMO concepts will be unchanged and I am sure that massiveness in all scales (21*21km map, guilds, battles, sieges) + advertisement via LiF:YO will bring even more players into our main world.

I completely understand your first reaction, but still hope for some moral support and understanding of our situation.

BTW, LiF:YO will be useful for MMO players also. Trust me, I know how it is easy to feck up a complex walls perimeter construction if you had not planned it before hand. We had experienced that while we were building that central that city you have seen in game. For us that was just a few minutes of instant deleting a huge chunk of walls, but for you such mistake will mean a long and boring process of damaging and destroying of your own assets I am not talking about wasted resources and time.

So LiF:YO will be a good tool for planning, PvP/formations training and testing of your characters/team build. I wish we had such detailed planning/template testing tools back in the days of old MMOs

[Wigster600]

I thought there were only going to be official servers to keep the community together, without people hosting their own.

[Siegbert]

Thanks for clearing that up, Bob.

I can fully understand the financial concerns and if this will do any help for you I say: go for it.

[Fish]

I'm sorry but this just seems like a roadblock why work on this side project when the main server should be priority? This seems like something to be added after the main release. I don't mean to offend it just doesn't make sense in my opinion.

[Tantal]

I completely understand your first reaction, but still hope for some moral support and understanding of our situation.

After a minute or two of calming down, I am sure you have the total support of us!

[Virdill]

After a minute or two of calming down, I am sure you have the total support of us!

This... i hope this can take you to the money you need

[Arrakis]

I'm glad to see some positive vibe here now

[Sieni]

I can wait

[encode]

As i said via IRC im in love with this new feature.

Bobik give green flag for server/client edition/reverse.

[Psychobilly]

Unfortunately, this is a huge disappointment for those of us who are here to play an MMO. The impression given is that the netcode stability issues are very core issues that would require significant dev time to fix - if they even can be fixed. Stable nodes, and transitions across nodes are probably one of the most important aspects of a full loot pvp MMO. This is going to completely de-hype your game.

I can understand needing money, and the private server approach is a way to do it short term. But I can't say this is the right decision - I'd much have preferred sacrificing all other aspects of the game to get the network/node code down 100%. If you have investors pressuring you to go for a short term cash grab instead - they are horrible investors with no vision.

[Arrakis]

Working on servers stability will just take a little bit longer, but it will be fixed you can be sure of it, especially with more manpower to come. LiF as MMORPG will come to life shortly after LiF:YO is released.

[Hodo]

This is the BIGGEST problem I see with this idea.

Hacks.

Simple as that. Anything you give the playerbase 100% access to will inevitably lead to hacks. I can not tell you the number of hacks out there for games that have to much information on the client side system. If I can see it on my HDD I can modify it, and thus change the rules for myself. Nothing says that if I have access to the server information for my own micro-server, I cant modify the files that affect my movement speed, or damage or even detection ranges to make myself fly, or move at stupid speeds, and hit like an atomic bomb.

Other than that I can't agree more that this is a bad move, but not for the same reasons as everyone else.

[Saxxon]

I am in this for the mmo side of LiF as well. Take the time and really think about what this means for the overall health and polish the LiF mmo will receive from this product.

Guys look at LiF:YO as a testbed for all the functions and systems big brother LiF will receive as a benefit and will drastically shorten the alpha - beta cycle and get us to release sooner with a more polished and bug free experience in the long run.

It is necessary and you know... Life IS Feudal.

[Arrakis]

This is the BIGGEST problem I see with this idea.

Hacks.

Simple as that. Anything you give the playerbase 100% access to will inevitably lead to hacks. I can not tell you the number of hacks out there for games that have to much information on the client side system. If I can see it on my HDD I can modify it, and thus change the rules for myself. Nothing says that if I have access to the server information for my own micro-server, I cant modify the files that affect my movement speed, or damage or even detection ranges to make myself fly, or move at stupid speeds, and hit like an atomic bomb.

Other than that I can't agree more that this is a bad move, but not for the same reasons as everyone else.

In LiF most of the mechanics are serverside, thus the game is really hackproof mostly, only few clientside hacks like wallhack may come to life (which might rather be quite useless)

[Erodrayle]

I just see small groups of players, 4-5 people, doing their own thing on the 'private' servers rather then the official server. For most MMOs, this wouldn't be a problem, but with the way you have LiF structured, the official server will have the same amount of pvpers, but alot less of the carebeary people who want to just craft.

I think it'll overall end badly for the mmo aspect. I don't expect anything to change, so I guess those that have donated already will have to sit around and wait longer for the actual game we donated for.

[Shrimps]

I felt the need to stop lurking and create an account just because of the terrible news I saw on the site.

This is a cashgrab on all accounts. It seems to me that the Devs care less about the longevity of their game than they do about making money right now. I honestly can't imagine what good this would accomplish for the game, however I can come up with some pretty big negatives.

Hacks, as stated earlier giving someone access to all the game systems opens up a huge window for hacking. Even someone with rudimentary knowledge in coding can do some nasty things with open access to the games core elements.

Exploits, So I have a private server in which I can do anything I like? So I can find and exploit any number of glitches without opposition and then bring them to the main server? I can try all possible combinations of various bugs and dupes and other various glitches. Not to mention figuring out how to glitch buildings so they are harder to destroy or are inaccessible etc. Let us plan out our buildings before we actually place them with some form of construction site like Xsyon and that whole argument would be irrelevant.

PowerGaming, I can instantly reroll my character and progress their skills to the maximum levels to test and see what combination is going to be the best build. And you cannot say that they will be balanced enough that there will be no "best" build. Blizzard has several thousand people that it employs and it still cannot balance it's games faster than people can find the one best class. I certainly doubt a 5 man team is going to be able to effectively balance the skills as fast as the powergamers can analyze them.

Not to mention the best weapons and armor. Give it 2 weeks and everyone will be running around in the flavor of the month build with the exact same armor, weapon and skillset as everyone else so they're not "gimped".

The bottom line here is that every "good" quality the private server would lend to the game it brings several bad qualities with it. There is no reason other than the Devs want more money and they won't admit it. Honestly just fix your netcode and let us play early access and a lot of people will buy in. But with the LiF:YO all it will do is drive those of us away that were on the fence.

-Sincerely, A lost Customer.

/Rant

[Saxxon]

Read threads before you /rant and you might find answers before you post and it cuts down on needless drama.

You honestly don't think all these exploits will be found and dealt with? Would you rather wait for the mmo to be released and deal with them when the game is live?

I don't think so.

Since you feel so strongly I figured you would at least read the comments here but since you didn't here is something you should have noticed...

Yes, official alpha will still be possible and we will still do our best to make a stable servers.

There are numerous reasons behind LiF:YO. I literally had a whole week of sleepless nights (I am not joking.) weighting all cons and pros. Some of those reasons are financial also. We have really small team for such a huge project. It was known to us, but I had obviously underestimated multinodes system complexity and amount of bugs it had produced and will produce.

Fixing those bugs had taken a lot of efforts and will take more. Investors' grip on my neck is tightening once more. It was easier since greenlight campaign and semi good flow of donations, but now it is all grim as it was after our failed indiegogo.com campaign.

As it was stated above, LiF MMO will not suffer in any way from LiF:YO only by some amount of development speed, which in the end might be even faster. Amount of features that 5 developers can produce in 6 month, might be less then amount of features produced by 1 developer in 3 months and then 10 developers in next 3 months

LiF MMO concepts will be unchanged and I am sure that massiveness in all scales (21*21km map, guilds, battles, sieges) + advertisement via LiF:YO will bring even more players into our main world.

I completely understand your first reaction, but still hope for some moral support and understanding of our situation.

BTW, LiF:YO will be useful for MMO players also. Trust me, I know how it is easy to feck up a complex walls perimeter construction if you had not planned it before hand. We had experienced that while we were building that central that city you have seen in game. For us that was just a few minutes of instant deleting a huge chunk of walls, but for you such mistake will mean a long and boring process of damaging and destroying of your own assets I am not talking about wasted resources and time.

So LiF:YO will be a good tool for planning, PvP/formations training and testing of your characters/team build. I wish we had such detailed planning/template testing tools back in the days of old MMOs

[Kuroi]

inb4 mmo lif filled by just pvpers while pvers and crafters will have their nice and safe private server to enjoy hours and hours of craft and hunting with no issues.

even if you give them a 2x2 kms map, they will stay there, they will not take the risk to play with potential pkers around.

and the main think about mmos is about playing with everyone, since the very first moment. not trying builds and understanding the game alone in a safe world, that's just bullshit, that means that once they'll create their avatar in mmo lif, IF they'll do it, they'll just follow the precise way they planned thanks to their safe world, killing what an mmo is: trying and retrying stuff in the real world with your pros and cons. not doing it with GM powers until you find your way-to-go template.

totally disappointed.