Cian wrote:
Would sombody be able to create a successful industrial town in the mountains by virtue of easier access and larger amounts of iron or marble?
Cian wrote:Bobik,
Will certain geographic areas be more pre-disposed to certain resources over others?
For example, will a mountain but more likely to have more frequent deposits of iron and marble vs perhaps a town build next to a lake where they created a mine by digging straight down into the ground?
Would sombody be able to create a successful industrial town in the mountains by virtue of easier access and larger amounts of iron or marble?
Or is the distribution random?
Bobik wrote:So far I can say about following distribution:
Ores are only inside rocky (mountain) substances. So if there is a greenland without any sights of mountains - no matter how much you will dig, you won't find ore.
Marble, granite and slate also *surprize* distributed in mountains.
Different types of trees are distributed with according climate areas.
Steppe soils are less fertile then normal (greenland) soils, so it is kinda of resource distribution too. And do not underestimate need of good high quality food flow Not only players will need it, but animals in stables and breeding pens too.
You won't be able to build a WHOLE working city underground, but settling on a mountain side to establish a fast production workflow is certainly a good idea. But you might gonna have troubles with food, since there will be only rock and forest around you.
theinternetman wrote:Natural resources not respawning is a game breaking issue and should not be included in the final release. Anyone who has extensive sandbox MMO experience would agree. This game may be your "special snowflake" MMO bobik but that doesn't mean you should make idiotic development choices such as that one. Maybe if you want 10 people to play your game and it to be completely commercially unsuccessful that's a good idea. Players will completely ravage the world and it will negatively impact everyone. People come to games to escape real life, not simulate the annoying aspects of it. In before someone from the Darkfail crew uses hyperbole to call me a casual gamer, etc.
Yeah I have a job, that's why I actually have money and can afford to spend it on a game instead of the poopsockers who will corner all the resources in the game by playing 24/7 in their parents basement or using disability/social security checks.
Who has time to worry about video game resources being permanently depleted that works 40-50 hours a week?
Why is it every sandbox game developer thinks most people have 20-30 hours a week to dedicate to their game?
...and people wonder why Sandbox MMOs aren't popular.
Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...
...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.
Well, you understand that such "ideal" mining will be almost impossible in our game, and real time you will spend to mine out that 40 "ideal" minutes might be up to 3-4 hours.
Also, do not forget that you can recycle metal containing items back into ingots/
theinternetman wrote:Why is it every sandbox game developer thinks most people have 20-30 hours a week to dedicate to their game?
...and people wonder why Sandbox MMOs aren't popular.
Cian wrote:
As to the resource discussion. I'm not willing to put forth and argument one way or another until Alpha/Beta. Resource usage will get adjusted as Bobik gets a chance to observe the practical effect of a 50 man village strip mining a mountain over the course of a few weeks. Only then will he make adjustments as resources are wiped out too quickly or not quickly enough.
The only observation I will offer is this. If a village is forced to move once a month to find new minerals, then they likely deplete too quickly.
Dailato wrote:Cian wrote:
As to the resource discussion. I'm not willing to put forth and argument one way or another until Alpha/Beta. Resource usage will get adjusted as Bobik gets a chance to observe the practical effect of a 50 man village strip mining a mountain over the course of a few weeks. Only then will he make adjustments as resources are wiped out too quickly or not quickly enough.
The only observation I will offer is this. If a village is forced to move once a month to find new minerals, then they likely deplete too quickly.
I would tend to agree with you on the time-frame of moving a village. However!
This does not mean that after a month it will be just as easy to mine new minerals as it was before then. Having the village located on a small, singular node of iron ore may well mean it is limited to 1 month before it is depleted.
However if they are in a rocky, mountainous area, they may well find more by digging deeper and wider for a few days, or starting a new mine shaft on the other side of the valley, for example.
In other words, it may be optimal to move the village once a month, but it should not be required.
And yes, in general a sandbox rewards people that are constantly online more, as there is always something you can do (no dungeon timers, no cooldowns on some kind of energy or stamina) and having people in different timezones to keep up the pace 24/7 is a major advantage too.
That being said, organization and teamwork is far more valuable in a sandbox than time available, as logistics and safety take precedence over quantity of goods created, and similar for warfare.
You can't beat massive odds, but you can certainly mitigate them substantially.
Yours truly -The Pope
Arrakis09 wrote:Well moving a village is a valid option, but resource and time consuming, not to mention the danger.
Thokan wrote:Not really.
We do not know how small a village can support a mining operation, but we do know with certainty that realms can.
You cannot move a realm.
Beside, I think you are underestimating the importance of your camp. The camp is the source of all your work, accomplishment and progress. In sense, it is more your character than your character-sheet is.
Moving from a small hermitage might be plausible, but moving a village would be like deleting your character and starting over again.
I'm affraid I must agree - I started worrying too after reading first comment on non-renewable resources. Then the world must be enormous! If the game becames popular, there will be everyone fighting over few lumps of coal/iron.theinternetman wrote:Natural resources not respawning is a game breaking issue and should not be included in the final release. Anyone who has extensive sandbox MMO experience would agree. [...]
Yeah I have a job, that's why I actually have money and can afford to spend it on a game instead of the poopsockers who will corner all the resources in the game by playing 24/7 in their parents basement or using disability/social security checks.
Who has time to worry about video game resources being permanently depleted that works 40-50 hours a week?
[...]
Sting5 wrote:I'm affraid I must agree - I started worrying too after reading first comment on non-renewable resources. Then the world must be enormous! If the game becames popular, there will be everyone fighting over few lumps of coal/iron.
I'm sure though that if LiF will be with limited earth resources, then we have to either be able to dig as deep as we want to. Or the server must be restarted periodically (and that is stupid idea...).
Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...
...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.
Sting5 wrote:Or the server must be restarted periodically (and that is stupid idea...).
Antiblitz wrote:Sting5 wrote:Or the server must be restarted periodically (and that is stupid idea...).
this is inevitable in any sandbox mmo, these servers will be restarted sooner then later, normally however when server restarts occur, you have this mixed flow of players coming and leaving, some coming for the new fresh start while others are leaving with their glory intact. As a developer, you dont want people to leave, you lose money that way, so restarting is a drasic measure that should be avoided if possible.
Im not sure if this was mentioned before or not, but plants, trees and water are renewable, the ores in the ground are not, they will at one time or another be dug out of specific areas more heavily then others. If they were to create something that when cave decay occurred it would have to stay untouched(or not, just incase of accidents) for a period of time, maybe 3 months(a random number i shot out, it could be anything) real time, before resources renew themselves. This skips
any sort of issues from a server restart as well as gets rid of the rants about these threads. Of course this then creates additional scripts for the server load to remember.
TL:DR, it would be a simple underground server reset of anything that has decayed into just dirt due to being mined, and the mine collapsing do to inactivity. This would occur every so many months to alleviate a need for a restart while leaving the rest of the server playable and intact.