Life is Feudal Official Forum

[finalreview]

IMO: 1 Account (try the best you can to ban all multi) 1 character. You will always have a few hardcore players who will pay to risk multi account for an advantage but in a game like this if you have 500 people in your kingdom I highly doubt the few savvy enough to get away with multi would make much of a difference.

As for espionage there has to be some risk or cost to it. If you can pay 10 and level a new toon to max in a week, every single major kingdom will have multiple spies in every competitors kingdom. If you want to be a spy and you don't multi account you will have to delete your character and play the game 100% with their kingdom. I hope this game flourishes and has multiple servers FULL status, but most likely you will know the names of the of your enemies.

If there has to be alts, I want 20-30 first character, 20,30,40,50 for alts.

Fuck alts.




EDIT: add poll for Fuck alts. I don't want any of the choices.

[Cian]

I agree with you but I think spies in a kingdom are going to be a problem no matter what. Plenty of clans are willing to pay any amount of money for an advantage. No amount of euros is going to change that.

[Proximo]

One of my biggest questions is how your going to afford to keep the server(s) up and develop needed content. Many player's will only have 1 character and 20 euros is only 30 dollars Canadian currently. a AAA console game sells for 60-80 dollars on average and most of the time that's ripping us off yet people buy them.

If your going to bank on 1 time buys and a cash shop that isn't pay to win I would suggest a monthly fee. A monthly fee of 5 euros aswell as the first character being 20 euros and the 5 for another character slot.

This will still deter bots and put a cost in front of people zerging alts to have every skill covered.

The most important reason for me is the continued development of this game for the better. I want a subscription. I want it to be cheaper than most streamline MMOs but I still want one. A couple dollars from thousands of players is still alot of money.

I personally support the 1 character per person enforced because then players have to literally live with there choices. Realistically this is impossible.

Although an indie game and in Alpha this game would only run me about 40 to start and 8 dollars a month which is half as cheap as the next sub. This is completely acceptable to me if your game is playable. Your free trial island is a good way to let people get there hands on the game and see if it's for them. Anyone wanting to play would surely pay a sub anyways.

In closing, of course everyone likes Free but I don't think the current model is sufficient to support this game alone. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sting5]

[...]
If your going to bank on 1 time buys and a cash shop that isn't pay to win I would suggest a monthly fee. A monthly fee of 5 euros aswell as the first character being 20 euros and the 5 for another character slot.

This will still deter bots and put a cost in front of people zerging alts to have every skill covered.

[...]

In closing, of course everyone likes Free but I don't think the current model is sufficient to support this game alone. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree in some part - monthly fee is even better financing for developers than single charge for account. BUT monthly fees is going to surpass the once paid price in time, so You will start overpaying. AND - Though I would be glad paying 20 Euros for the game while I like the concept so far, I couldn't afford paying monthly fees whatever the price is. I would be forced to stop paying some months later, so why bother?

And about skillcap - It's known that in the game You will be able to change skills (decrease one type of skills, increase others), so You can do anything You want. Skillcap is not about forcing You to stay in one role for the rest of Your life. It's made to keep people from becoming ultra-humans and doing impossible - being masters of all arts - at the same time.


P.S. What's with all the whining about canadian dollar going down? Did You people know that there's such a great option in Your e-bank accounts like buying foreign currency? EVEN BANKS IN MY COUNTRY HAVE IT. I'm sure that Canada isn't less achieved. Buy 20 Euros today, in advance, (if You're planing to pay for the game) and forget inflations/deflations. Might there be a bigger/smaller amount to pay for this game - You will loose less anyway.
Unless you don't have bank acc. Then it's ass.

[P0stpwned]

Gotta say, I'd support a monthly fee too. Look at www.darkages.com - that game has been around forever and they still have a few hundred people paying subscription fees every month.

[Proximo]

Nobodies whining about Canadian dollars. If you have reading comprehension skills of any level the point of what I said is that the price is to low. 30-40-50 or any higher price isn't that bad if it's a 1 time buy. Anyone could make 30 dollars working at the nearest coffee shop or more in 3 hours. I don't really know how someone couldn't set aside 5 euros a month to pay a sub instead of eating out once during that month. If you can't afford 5 euros a month perhaps you shouldn't be paying for electricity and internet?

Playing video games isn't a service, it's a hobby.

[SaresITA89]

For developers: put in game the SURNAME please, so if someone is called Jon XYZ, the alt will be called Bam XYZ. This avoid pkers to back blue and spies to join enemy clans, all should be account based even if you make more characters.

Spying and enemy infiltration should not be limited in any form. It adds a whole new depth and immersion to the conquest and political metagame aswell as wars and sieges.

The Darkfall you can create a unique character, and spying is widely used.

warning: wall of text

As a vet player of Mortal Online, i do not agree with the reputation system of -50 = permanent killer, unless it is very difficult to get there.

When i played mortal online the worst people of the server were the "innocent" ones, they would always zerg protect the people sieging our property, there is a murdercount system similar to your reputation system.
once you hit 5 murdercounts you become a murderer, the problem was, i was a mounted archer and in a single fight where we were defending our own property, i shot 32 different people with arrows, i got 32 murdercounts and it takes 8h ingame to burn a single murdercount.

if another person was killed while "burning" murdercounts your timer would reset to 8h, and you would receive another murdercount

i tried my hardest to not be a murderer in that game, but eventually i was forced to be one protecting my own property.

if i am forced into the same thing in LIF then i will be quiting, i cannot afford to make a new char every time someone attacks my property, you need to have a clear system in place to make sure we can defend ourselves without taking on murdercounts, perhaps have a territory, where if somebody enters your territory you can kill them without consequence, if you can do this, i will be happy to pay whatever cost you put on the chars.

i have quit MO because of how much safety the "innocent" people have, i would like a system where your reputation drops if you kill a murderer or a innocent, perhaps a lower reputation drop on killing a murderer, the people of MO would attack a murderer on sight, knowing they can run to safety or call in more people knowing you cannot run to safety.

TL;DR the reputation system could be griefed, forcing people to buy new people, or quit the game

soon released an article which explains the "trespassing."

the article is written in Italian, so I write here in English what bpbol has wrote in PM:

1) Trespasser! - you can target someone on a land, where he has no passing rights (your personal lands, your friends personal lands and so on). Thus a marked person will be a trespasser and become a criminal = can be attacked.
2) Trespassers! - Everyone in a 20m radius will be marked as a trespasser (ofc if they has no passing rights here).

if your friends are using this skill, you can kill without worrying about alignment, as you'll see all the gray people.

Alignment:
http://lifeisfeudal.gamepedia.com/Alignment

[Assanet]

Well, in general, yes, for many it will be no problem .. But only one condition: them of this game is addictive/enjoy and they will want to exit to the main land.
And for this purpose it is necessary to taste game

[trashman]

I would strongly suggest a monthly fee to maintain servers and development. If you are afraid it will deter players from staying only make it 5eu a month. Nearly everyone can afford such a low rate.

[Best4Gamers]

i think this game shuld be p2p
like all other sandbox rpg , with mounth fee of 9-12 $
and 3-4 char slot per account
you can have multiple account , with discount of 25% ...

[Akaedis]

In my opinion, this price needs to be raised to 15$, 10 Euro? Kinda cheap tbh...

[Virdill]

I hope in p2p... But if you are sure you can get enough profit with B2P, and that's what you want that's ok, I would also have preferred a single character for account (I think the price should be 20 € for slot)

[Arthua]

Monthly fees are a no.

Sure most 18+ players (younger players may not have access to cc and bank accs) are able and can afford 5$/mo - 10$/mo.

But honestly there are many people who dont want to pay a monthly fee for a video game. Especailly when there are many free or b2p titles out there (console games, minecraft, RUST!!, DayZ, other upcoming free or b2p sandbox mmos, etc).

It is really a turn off. Take Mortal Online for example. Seems like a wonderful game, but I never will try it because it's pay to pay. Whats the point? Even if I do pay for it, a few months I may quit.

For p2p games you cant return to them unless you reopen a sub. It's just seems like a ripoff, when many games are cheaper.

Heck its just a game! there's Netflix, Youtube, real life, real life job, school. So many other expenses and priorities.

[Demonic]

In my opinion, this price needs to be raised to 15$, 10 Euro? Kinda cheap tbh...

15$ = 10€ mate

[finalreview]

5-15US$ for "premium" just make w/e the base experience rate you want as "125%" and make the normal experience rate 75% of normal but call it 100%. Kids don't have to pay and don't miss out on much, while adults can support the development / maintenance and get a small perk. Or create any number of cash shop perks for small prices that work well together so the average player will spend between 5-15$US per month. Nothing that is pay to win, just timer savers or cosmetic.

1 Character 1 Account 0 Alts

[Dailato]

Some really nice discussion going on in here, good stuff.

To respond briefly on why I think single-account is perfectly viable, even if not 100% enforceable:
The vast majority of people will not want to risk getting both (or even more) of their accounts banned for the sake of an Alt account.
Only those truly confident in their ability to evade detection will then have multiple accounts, and they would have found a way around whatever system you use anyway.

Having your alignment tied to your account is a viable alternative, but I don't like the "last names" solution. First off it requires you to give all your characters the same last name, which I may just not want to do for RP reasons. Secondly people will not easily remember if they were brutally murdered by John ililillilililili or John illliililliili (which may or may not both show up as barcodes in the game).

Obviously that's a bit of an extreme example, but it will be a nuisance none-theless, I'd prefer just having a PK-character on your account condemned all your characters to the same reputation without people having to remember your surname.

As for subscription model: as a few people pointed out, subscription model is huge wall for some (alot) of people to climb. So there should be the option to just pay once and have the game.

However, as also mentioned, this may not be very sustainable business model. And 5$ a month is not that much for most people. So if I may propose a solution:

Subscription is optional, benefits of subscription are: Monthly in-game store allowance, early access to upcoming stuff (test server), maybe a title of some kind, special discount or such for long-time subscribers on some in-game store items (which changes once in a while).

Just a few ideas here which will completely avoid P2W, but still give people who want to support game with subscription incentive to do so.

It can be a pain to setup multiple tier business model like this, administration-wise, but is well worth it for long-term income I feel.

Keep up the discussion, we want to help the developers make the best decision for LiF's future.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Salival2020]

I don't mind the fee for transferring characters, But I do not think it will prevent players from having multiple characters and using some or just one for EViL!

I joined this forums 3 years ago..lol 1st post a little late...just maybe.

[Salival2020]

5-15US$ for "premium" just make w/e the base experience rate you want as "125%" and make the normal experience rate 75% of normal but call it 100%. Kids don't have to pay and don't miss out on much, while adults can support the development / maintenance and get a small perk. Or create any number of cash shop perks for small prices that work well together so the average player will spend between 5-15$US per month. Nothing that is pay to win, just timer savers or cosmetic.

1 Character 1 Account 0 Alts

I do not like that idea of premium accounts getting greater xp then it just becomes similar to a pay to win or flourish scheme.

Which I think would hurt the game, anything premium has to offer should be cosmetic or something thats will not affect the landscape of the game by much.

[Demonic]

My idea.

B2P
20€ for 1st ticket, 5 - 10€ for next tickets.

P2P

5€/month
-> 1st ticket
-> every month you receive fixed amount of some virtual currency (VC). You can than spend this VC in online store for next tickets or other stuff.

You can switch your payment model every month, but if you are playing with subscription for less then 4 months, you would have to even up the money to 20€.

You can of course use the online store for real money payments regardless of the type of payment you used.

[Argentfan]

I don't think it's a bad idea and the price isn't unreasonable if the game really is good. But for me it's a fairly big chunk of change for that first character. Maybe adjust the prices to be more like 15 Euros for the first and still 10 for the second. That way the initial purchase is less jarring, but alternate characters still have to be taken seriously.

[Floris_Macflurri]

If I can create and play my characters without paying too much for doing so I would be pretty much satisfied. It would be best if I needed to pay once and get multiple characters to the main continent. It looks like a game I will no-life with friends so keeping the costs low is the thing I want.

[Arthua]

5-15US$ for "premium" just make w/e the base experience rate you want as "125%" and make the normal experience rate 75% of normal but call it 100%. Kids don't have to pay and don't miss out on much, while adults can support the development / maintenance and get a small perk. Or create any number of cash shop perks for small prices that work well together so the average player will spend between 5-15$US per month. Nothing that is pay to win, just timer savers or cosmetic.

1 Character 1 Account 0 Alts

No perks. I hate that "premium" advantage. That is exactly what pay to win is.

Premium subscribers should be called "Donators". They should get an allowance, a title near their name, and a few cosmetic items (maybe a starter house, or an exclusively premium weapon that is purely cosmetic.)

I dislike cosmetic items too, but if finances are an issue that is the only fair perk "donators" should get (along with an allowance).

People should want to donate. Another suggestion would be to add an unlimited amount for players to donate per month. With a minimum donation of 5$, they can get a minute perk (small allowance maybe), which ends at the end of the month. That way if people want to donate like 40$ they can.

It's all about minimizing pressure. When i look at a game that demands a monthly fee, all i see is a game that is archiac and callous towards gamers. Everyone knows the negative feeling of subscription gaming. The ambiguity of the future. 'Will i have enough money to keep paying for this?' Or 'Geez, ive been playing for 8 months and I've already paid over 80$+ on this, should I quit?"

B2p games allows players to leave and freely return to a game. There is no pressure, and you feel like this game will be forever.

Some people posting seem to put gaming on a high priority. Sure a game could be a blast, but truthfully couldnt you have put that 200$ youve spent on Game X towards something more constructive, and just played the equally as entertaining games that are b2p.

[Starioshka]

Many characters is stupid. Paying for more characters sounds smart, will stop people from localising all the economy to one account.

[Krevente]

Having experience in the industry from the business side I can tell you that B2P is nearly unsustainable as a model. It works great for games like DayZ or Rust because those aren't MMOs. The backend infrastructure that maintains the master server lists are minor compared to what you need for an MMO.

Most companies that are built on F2P or B2P models are struggling and either use their F2P or B2P games to bring in fresh customers through some sort of item shop or are backed by a larger company that uses that title for other means.

Sorry, but subscription based MMOs are the vast majority because it is the most sustainable business model, especially for indie studios. Regardless of your personal feelings on the matter or what that says to you, that is just a fact of running a business and at the end of the day that is what an MMO is and how it stays online.

I'm still in favor of a subscription based system, but B2P seems to be the path that is being taken.

Once you add premium this and that, then there are balancing considerations that are generally done poorly.

[Mysbubblan]

I like this idea as it will allow players that use more then one character to use one account for them all instead of buying multiple accounts!

And the price's seem fair to me!

[Proximo]

Paying a sub is not a turn off for most people. Games lose subscribers because of the game itself. Lack of content and shoddy development. Theme parks are only entertaining until we've been on all the rides.

If this is truly a sandbox MMO with as much freedom as we've been led to believe then people will be engaged in the world and it's politics far longer than any theme park.

If this is actually an MMO there will be certain costs to maintain a server good enough to give us a great experience ingame.

I don't see how a cash shop will cover your expenses unless your planning on pumping out abunch of custom skins or something along those lines.

I personally prefer getting everything in the game for a set price. For MMOs that usually means a monthly sub. I'm only interested in playing the game and usually never waste money on cosmetics. If the core mechanics are good then this game will succeed.

[Sting5]

5-15US$ for "premium" just make w/e the base experience rate you want as "125%" and make the normal experience rate 75% of normal but call it 100%. Kids don't have to pay and don't miss out on much, while adults can support the development / maintenance and get a small perk. Or create any number of cash shop perks for small prices that work well together so the average player will spend between 5-15$US per month. Nothing that is pay to win, just timer savers or cosmetic.

1 Character 1 Account 0 Alts

No perks. I hate that "premium" advantage. That is exactly what pay to win is.

Premium subscribers should be called "Donators". They should get an allowance, a title near their name, and a few cosmetic items (maybe a starter house, or an exclusively premium weapon that is purely cosmetic.)

I dislike cosmetic items too, but if finances are an issue that is the only fair perk "donators" should get (along with an allowance).

People should want to donate. Another suggestion would be to add an unlimited amount for players to donate per month. With a minimum donation of 5$, they can get a minute perk (small allowance maybe), which ends at the end of the month. That way if people want to donate like 40$ they can.

It's all about minimizing pressure. When i look at a game that demands a monthly fee, all i see is a game that is archiac and callous towards gamers. Everyone knows the negative feeling of subscription gaming. The ambiguity of the future. 'Will i have enough money to keep paying for this?' Or 'Geez, ive been playing for 8 months and I've already paid over 80$+ on this, should I quit?"

B2p games allows players to leave and freely return to a game. There is no pressure, and you feel like this game will be forever.

Some people posting seem to put gaming on a high priority. Sure a game could be a blast, but truthfully couldnt you have put that 200$ youve spent on Game X towards something more constructive, and just played the equally as entertaining games that are b2p.

[banok]

The game needs a price on alternative characters to stop people abusing them. it's a must.

1 character per server makes for a better experience, in my opinion. However people can always buy multiple accounts, so might as well let them buy extra character slots.

[Stavious]

My question is what payment systems will you be using PayPal, credit card direct debit? if its just limited to PayPal I wont be playing this game.

[Sting5]

My question is what payment systems will you be using PayPal, credit card direct debit? if its just limited to PayPal I wont be playing this game.

You can pay with your credit/debit card via PayPal, no problem. Unless bank has not enabled internet purchasing option onto Your card, then no good. If You mean T/T, then the price would be fee + bank transfer tax.