Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Macpharlan]

Please tell me a personal claim can have multiple people for small groups that are not big enough for a guild (a band on the wiki).

This was available on YO, I erected a monument and had a small group that had access.


We don't have 10 and we don't want to join a larger group, but each of us having to do a claim is a little ridiculous, the YO feature was perfect for small groups.

According to the Wiki a Band is the first level of groups, so I sure hope there is a mechanism to actually form a band, protect our stuff ect...

Band[edit | edit source]
Technically, a Band is not a guild at all, it is just a bunch of players that are trying to start their own fully efficient guild. Bands cannot participate in global politics by changing their standings towards other guilds. Members of Band can not bear guild titles or guild tags unlike other guilds. Bands do not own any land claims.

[Dsimms6]

Yeah, this is terrible. You HAVE to have 10 people, or you HAVE to play alone.... You can't have like 5-8 people, which is most common.... personal claims all over the place trying to handle that. It's just plain stupid.

[Ska]

Same here, we started as a 6 man group, if we cannot claim anything we dont need to play this game

so yea it would be very usefull if you start with a 5 man claim, than 20 than 50 maybe

[Dsimms6]

Same here, we started as a 6 man group, if we cannot claim anything we dont need to play this game

so yea it would be very usefull if you start with a 5 man claim, than 20 than 50 maybe

Definitely..

[Arrakis]

Well, if you're having problems with the claim, you may ask this guy for directions - topic25560/#p113285
Seems he's doing pretty well for himself, being so far away from the central city.

[Macpharlan]

I would not go off one person over the many that have complained about it.

You guys are doing a great job and getting a lot of grief for things, I appreciate the hard work you are doing to fix issues.



One issue is the starter monument, we are all poor peasants, maybe this guy can spend a couple hours a day running to the market to chop down a tree to get a log to trade, but that does not seem realistic.


In this post you said that you could sacrafice anything to a level one monument, that does not seem to be the case, I have put everything imaginable, even precious food and I keep getting a message that it only wants coins.

post113320/#p113320

[Arrakis]

In this post you said that you could sacrafice anything to a level one monument,

Tier 1 guild monument. I exactly stated that it's about guild monument, not private monument.

[Macpharlan]

Oh I see, it is very confusing on how it works and the wiki did not make it clear.

As I stated on the other thread, forcing solo players or small bands to feed the starter personal claim only coins and yet a first tier guild monument will take anything seems like it is punishing the solo/small group.

I would think if you did a poll on this you would see there is a lot of frustration around trying to protect your stuff and how hard it is to do that right now.

When you start you are dirt poor, a peasant and need to spend every hour trying to get better, having to literally spend hours a day running to the market with something suitable instead of playing the game really kills it.

In YO I thought it worked well, it took a bit to get that first monument up, but it was easy to maintain.


Thanks for the reply, hope this is taken into consideration. For me there is no reason to play this without a guild.

[Peegee77]

Does this not allow you to manage a personal claim so that you can run it as a small group ( <10 ) ?

http://prntscr.com/hdm0am

[Velius]

seems like it is punishing the solo/small group.

Not for nothing, but that is the intention and was done on purpose.

The game is designed for communities and large groups who interact with and depend upon one another. It's actually been one of the most social MMO/Survival experiences I've had and quite the pleasant one at that. I usually solo in many MMOs and survival games and enjoy the challenge, but here the goal is community as trying to go it alone or with a very small group will only end in frustration, burnout, and eventually walking away.

Solo, while possible, is almost tantamount to suicide as you will either need to enter into some form of trade/conscription agreement with a guild even to have the most basic of facilities, which usually will not be provided for free, you will need to be online every free moment of your day in order to single-handedly accomplish all of the tasks required for maintaining a claim, much less a charater, and you will almost certainly be absolutely obliterated if someone decides that your place would look far better if it were on fire.

You can be a lone wolf, but realize that you are moving the difficulty slider all the way to the right.

[Peegee77]

I feel I must be missing something here. If you want to operate as a group of 2 - 9 players surely you can do this:

1/ The "leader" sets a personal claim
2/ He / she right clicks the monument > Worship
3/ Modify the Claim Rights (see image) https://prnt.sc/hdm0am
4/ Add the other group members to give access to the claim
5/ Right click ground next to monument > Resize Claim
6/ Set a size suitable for the group
7/ All group members share the maintenance cost

Does this not give the required game mechanics for small group playstyle ?

[z3x]

In my opinion maintaining a personal claim with only coins, big enough for like 6-7 houses, boxes und workstations -> very hard, especially with a grp not able to play 24/7.

[Macpharlan]

I feel I must be missing something here. If you want to operate as a group of 2 - 9 players surely you can do this:

1/ The "leader" sets a personal claim
2/ He / she right clicks the monument > Worship
3/ Modify the Claim Rights (see image) https://prnt.sc/hdm0am
4/ Add the other group members to give access to the claim
5/ Right click ground next to monument > Resize Claim
6/ Set a size suitable for the group
7/ All group members share the maintenance cost

Does this not give the required game mechanics for small group playstyle ?

Yes, initial size covers one house, feed it 30 coins and it gives you one real day of gaming, that is WITHOUT expanding it. You need a person that spends all day at town chopping down the royal forest and dragging logs to town to get the coins. You can trade other things but when your a a serf you can't produce anything and the king is driving you into the mud.

We have two claims hoping that would save out small group of 5, but that covered two houses, the first we build is already ablaze.

If this is the game design they need to put that on the login or something "Nearly impossible to survive and play this game with any fun without a guild, play at your own risk"

this force my group to abandon the flames and seek a guild, luckily we found a good one close by, but I fee for the solo or small band that wants to play, it punishes them and kills the fun.

If you are not in a guild you may as well play in server 25 so you can stay in town

[Peegee77]

My complaint with the system is that it has forced solo / small groups into the centre of the map, and into a "NPC Dependency Culture" but that's a separate issue.

As regards practicality of what we have now, my personal claim is 4 x 5 = 20 tiles. 2 hours spent grinding out building logs gives me enough coin for 4 real days. That doesn't seem unreasonable and certainly doesn't require 24/7 play.

[Macpharlan]

My complaint with the system is that it has forced solo / small groups into the centre of the map, and into a "NPC Dependency Culture" but that's a separate issue.

As regards practicality of what we have now, my personal claim is 4 x 5 = 20 tiles. 2 hours spent grinding out building logs gives me enough coin for 4 real days. That doesn't seem unreasonable and certainly doesn't require 24/7 play.

I think your first comment has a lot to do with the issue, we are up north on top of the hills, we have to travel over 3 servers to get to the city, if they had a trading post on each server then it would not be bad.

I personally think the first tier private should work like the first tier guild, feed it whatever, first level items. Or make it easier to get coins, folks should not have to live by the city to not be in a guild.

But alas we joined a guild and no longer have the problem, but I feel like it really hurts the solo player or small group and will drive them from the game.

[X-mage]

My complaint with the system is that it has forced solo / small groups into the centre of the map, and into a "NPC Dependency Culture" but that's a separate issue.

As regards practicality of what we have now, my personal claim is 4 x 5 = 20 tiles. 2 hours spent grinding out building logs gives me enough coin for 4 real days. That doesn't seem unreasonable and certainly doesn't require 24/7 play.

20 tiles, 16 of which are taken up by the smallest of houses. Just plain doesn't leave much room for expansion.

It would only be a matter of time until most people would admit that their two hour grind every four days really isn't worth it, but it appears as if there are always the outliers.

[Firekiller]

I think the idea that is missing here is the play style of small groups who lack the number(s) to become guild size and/or have no wish to play as a guild member(s). Some want to play solo some in small numbers and forgo the guild.
I to am not happy with the coin only personal claim thing and I'll tell you why. (Personal experience)
Spend like 4 hours after spawning traveling to link up with friends (that is ok). Spend next 3 hours gathering food to survive (that is ok). Find out I will need copper coin to claim land (that is ok). Travel 2 hours to and from capital city to make coin for land (that is ok). Spend next 5 hours traveling and looking for place we can set up and try to start “a living” in the game, transforming land, gathering mats, building shacks (that is ok). Build our little personal monument only to discover it wont last more than 3 game days, so now someone will now have to run back to capital city to get more coin or our little settlement will burn while were are at work (NOT OK). I mean really I understand the idea behind the game but in truth it seems it is set up to prohibit the smaller groups from surviving (not every community in feudal Europe was inside a town). I'm not saying something like give it a “stick” for a day but let it take prepped mats or something that can be crafted by the smaller groups. People do really have lives outside the game (my wife thinks not). I understand losing your productions areas, homes, stuff like that cause you “don't” have a big guild claim but really I can't even securely store my wares, food, or mats without coin is kinda of a turnoff for me. If I have to spend ¾ of my time just to get coin to protect what I produce in the other ¼ (No Thank You). And/or spend real life money to buy Gods Favor in game. Where I come from that is called a subscription based.

Now for my opinion which is worthless to anybody but myself.
What you have set up here is everybody will be living in guilds with big walls and all that stuff. You will wonder this “big empty map” cause you will not see Uncle Joe and his little family who lives in a small clearing in the woods just surviving on what they make or the little hamlet of friends who are a little big town with their own politics. They will get tired of losing stuff to thieves and/or decay. No bandit camps here or there cause all the guilds will just build trading posts and forgo transport of goods by road/cart the old fashion way. No “Crown riders” carrying coin or collecting tax to be guarded or robbed. Everyone will use the “Magic” trading post transport. No “small” groups to rise up and oppose a tyrant lord or king just these guilds fighting each other. The “guild minded” persons say this is fair, well how about fair turn so a low level guild taking like 10,000 a day in gold coin just to function? You have the numbers as stated above just spread the cost about in the guild. Smaller groups as stated above just fold into the guilds or just stop playing and that equals a - in player numbers.
I feel without these circles within circles this game will never live up to its full potential.
I understand the idea of any company is to make money hell we all try that, but when you start favoring one play stile over another or try to control game play in an MMO it tends to go sour fast. (Look at one age of Sailing game on steam who has lost 1000s of players.)
Rant over so I would also like to congratulate the team on a beautiful map, thank you for the hard work and long hours you are putting in during the launch, and keeping you community informed.
Should I be wrong and/or offend any member of the development/production team, let me apologize in advance as that is not my intentions I just wanted to put my little bit in the discussion.
Thank you!

[Velius]

I think the idea that is missing here is the play style of small groups who lack the number(s) to become guild size and/or have no wish to play as a guild member(s). Some want to play solo some in small numbers and forgo the guild.

I really do not like to type this, as I love this game and the communities it creates, but this might not be the game for you. It is almost physically impossible to function as a group with only 2-3 members, and mathematically impossible to be solo simply due to the amount of different professions and skill points required, and the massive, MASSIVE amount of time each person would need to contribute in order to maintain a claim, let alone maintain their characters. The game has always required and been intended for groups of 10 or more in order to flourish as a settlement. 10 people is not a large group in the grand scheme of things.

And incidentally, small groups do not need to be located near the center of the map. Make some sort of vassal/labor agreement to work for a nearby guild in exchange for use of their trading post. They should start appearing in the fairly near future.

[Macpharlan]

I think the idea that is missing here is the play style of small groups who lack the number(s) to become guild size and/or have no wish to play as a guild member(s). Some want to play solo some in small numbers and forgo the guild.

I really do not like to type this, as I love this game and the communities it creates, but this might not be the game for you. It is almost physically impossible to function as a group with only 2-3 members, and mathematically impossible to be solo simply due to the amount of different professions and skill points required, and the massive, MASSIVE amount of time each person would need to contribute in order to maintain a claim, let alone maintain their characters. The game has always required and been intended for groups of 10 or more in order to flourish as a settlement. 10 people is not a large group in the grand scheme of things.

.

I disagree, the prototype LIF YO worked great in this aspect, and the monument system worked more like the guild level one, it was not easy to get but easy to maintain after. There were lots of little groups and we simply allied with the larger ones.

It takes us a lot longer to get going and to create our ingame living, but that was fine, it was fun, but that has been replaced with running 2+ hours to get a coin, in my mind this is a broken mechanic, changing this would not break the game but for sure give more variety of groups.

I think this is evident in the amount of abandoned camps and houses that are now starting to go up in flames, just as the poster above mentioned, its not the games natural evolution that is killing the peasants, its the game mechanics of making it near impossible to protect your stuff.

[Velius]

I think the idea that is missing here is the play style of small groups who lack the number(s) to become guild size and/or have no wish to play as a guild member(s). Some want to play solo some in small numbers and forgo the guild.

I really do not like to type this, as I love this game and the communities it creates, but this might not be the game for you. It is almost physically impossible to function as a group with only 2-3 members, and mathematically impossible to be solo simply due to the amount of different professions and skill points required, and the massive, MASSIVE amount of time each person would need to contribute in order to maintain a claim, let alone maintain their characters. The game has always required and been intended for groups of 10 or more in order to flourish as a settlement. 10 people is not a large group in the grand scheme of things.

.

I disagree, the prototype LIF YO worked great in this aspect, and the monument system worked more like the guild level one, it was not easy to get but easy to maintain after. There were lots of little groups and we simply allied with the larger ones.

It takes us a lot longer to get going and to create our ingame living, but that was fine, it was fun, but that has been replaced with running 2+ hours to get a coin, in my mind this is a broken mechanic, changing this would not break the game but for sure give more variety of groups.

I think this is evident in the amount of abandoned camps and houses that are now starting to go up in flames, just as the poster above mentioned, its not the games natural evolution that is killing the peasants, its the game mechanics of making it near impossible to protect your stuff.

[Firekiller]

Velius you seem to be under some impression that there is an endgame here. Not every player wishes to own a fancy set of armor, or be a lord. Any player can live solo in the world as cold, wet, sickness, none of that can kill ya (yet). Our injuries heal all by themselves no infection to take your life. So that being said any person can have a home, catch food, eat it, and live quite a long time in game since that is all that is really required.

As for not the game for me I only have a lowly 450 hours in LiF so it may or may not be, nor or was my post aiming to allow the guild size claims we saw in YO that only had like 4 people in them. My point which I could have made better as it stands right now (Lack of trading posts around) it is very hard for anyone to start a small community which could grow into a guild. You prob had a group you played YO with and you all came over, what about the people coming in who did not or new people if it hits steam?

The claim size for solos or small groups is great in my idea, just right now it proves unpractical for smaller groups trying just to survive cause of the coin thing. It can be done just takes the fun out of it for me. If the devs wish to keep the game as it is so be it the game belongs to them. They make the rules. My choices are play within those rules or leave. Life is Feudal. I said before just putting my 2 cents out there.

And for future reference advising someone “this might not be the game for you” kinda defeats the purpose of a large scale MMO. I would think the creators of this game would rather you not advise people they should not play their game. The whole idea is the get more and more people to play not suggest someone should leave cause they might not agree with your view or a game mechanic and wish to express it. If the devs did not wish to hear us this forum would not exist.
I want everyone to have a good experience from the solo to the large guild which conquers the whole map and forces us all to homage.

[Norsegryphon]

I think the personal monument should be the , same as YO T1 Guild monument.
A 5 or under limitation on members. Non upgradable beyond the maintenance and max expansion.

Takes coins to establish, although since it will be for smaller groups, refined materials can be sacrificed as well as standard object. Pretty much same rules as a YO T1.

Raidable during JH etc. you can place restrictions on such claim areas ( palisade highest place able for walls) no tower, or no stone at all. I understand you want people to give you cash, no biggy. Just dont be aggressive about pigeonholing your customer base for the profit margin please.

Ive always avoided guilds or large towns, since i enjoy the building and random interactions that come with hidden forest homes, the random farming village , or a camp that specializes in hunters etc. you could do those on YO, not here. Appreciate getting that playstyle back.

[Velius]

Velius you seem to be under some impression that there is an endgame here. Not every player wishes to own a fancy set of armor, or be a lord. Any player can live solo in the world as cold, wet, sickness, none of that can kill ya (yet). Our injuries heal all by themselves no infection to take your life. So that being said any person can have a home, catch food, eat it, and live quite a long time in game since that is all that is really required.

As for not the game for me I only have a lowly 450 hours in LiF so it may or may not be, nor or was my post aiming to allow the guild size claims we saw in YO that only had like 4 people in them. My point which I could have made better as it stands right now (Lack of trading posts around) it is very hard for anyone to start a small community which could grow into a guild. You prob had a group you played YO with and you all came over, what about the people coming in who did not or new people if it hits steam?

This is not about endgame, this is simply playing a basic character. Let's say you wanted to be a simple hunter with a small homestead for yourself. Nothing fancy, no armor, no keep, no "yes, m'lord" lackeys.

Hunting 90: 90 skill pts (90)

You will need a bow, right?
60 artisan, 60 carpentry, 90 bowyery: 210 Points (300 total)

You'll likely want a house with an actual door so people cannot come murder you in your sleep..
(60 Artisan), 60 Construction, 60 Materials Preparation, 60 Smelting, 60 Forging: 240 Points (540 total)

You have already hit the crafting skillcap, even if you put all points into intellect and had bare minimums for all other stats (which also prevents you from using a bow or lifting anything heavier than) and that is without any other skills or abilities and will need such as herbalism for flux to make the locks for your door module. At this point one would need to either roll an alt or constantly be locking and lowering skills to juggle the crafting skills needed. This does not factor in any luxury skills such as procuration for curing hides that you'd skin.

Now to be fair, they can sell all of the big hides they get from boars, bears, etc to the crown for coin and amass more than they would need to sustain their claim and trade the overflow to other groups for materials and components needed, but that will factor into the time commitment for the various animals. Time could be considered the most valuable resource, both in-game and out.

Now if someone is content with living in a tiny shack and using bark boxes for storage and they are happy and enjoying their time, that is perfectly fine and I wish them all the happiness in the world. I do have a feeling, however, that there will be a good deal of players who do not want that level of grind, tedium, meagerness, or some combination thereof in a game they play their spare time for relaxation and enjoyment.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have not touched LiF:YO since before horses were added. I have a decent amount of time logged in YO and crafted a keep with my small group of 3 people on a server with a skillcap of 1500 and accelerated gain. It should be noted that we also conscripted new players to terraform for us to save time, and infinite piles for shaped granite, again to save time. I came on to MMO the first day of YO access where I met a group and joined them and am now helping to build the first set of perimeter walls for a citadel and having a blast doing so while meeting a lot of decent folk in the process. I did so because I realized with a skill cap of 400 there is no way I could ever self-sustain or reach a level of functionality above an unwashed peasant without nigh killing myself playing constantly and foregoing sleep and having to either constantly rotate skills or pay for alts.

[Norsegryphon]

Shouldnt call this game a sandbox, if people are driven into one playstyle.

[Bradmason40]

I think the thing the devs should take away from this is that this high barrier to entry/sustainability of solo to small groups of people is causing a lot of chatter and debate in several threads all over the forum. The fact that it exists as a major talking point is indication that maybe they should do something about it.

Yes people who came over from YO as guild players will love it, but like a previous poster said if all that exists are huge guilds what about all the circles within circles? What about that merry band of 5-6 mercenaries who live independently but who a larger guild could temporarily recruit in preparation for an upcoming war? What about that independent couple who have a small claim and just enjoy farming and hunting, could they supply a larger nearby claim with some food and furs occasionally?

Like another previous poster said, people didn't always live inside castle walls and in huge guilds during feudal times, plenty of independent farmers and traders. This game would be so much richer if they allowed things like that to develop. The formula for YO worked, why fix it if it ain't broken.

[Norsegryphon]

My issue is that nothing was learned from 4 years of YO. Once these large guilds are established. The indie players are pushed to quit. Who exactly is going to be buying anything on the market? Guilds will be able to provide all the goods they need without using the market systems besides crown sales. Leave out the regional items, they dont count.

In YO, the system was simple, fresh server is packed 64/64. Major groups, normally just 5-10 people, usually 4-8 depending on server take a month to get established. During this first month is the fun, people roam the lands, looking for trade, you will have 10-15 solo or small mans all building, slower than the guilds sure, but usually the guild players arent aggressive and usually need trade goods in return. An economy starts and herbalists start spamming for trades.

That all stops. Everytime, every server.

Once the main groups finished their walls and start the politics/war side. Every other guild has done the same. You dont need any other guild, since you can make everything you need, and helping a rival large guild can actually shoot yourself in the face. Guild scouts start harassing the smaller groups, playing the vassal game (which is pointless since there are no treaty or alliance systems in game) and those players quit after a few days of harassment. After a month youre left with 8 huge keeps each with 2 people maintaining them. Server peaks at 10/64 and new people never join, the next month is dead and the server shuts down.

This has happened year after year after year, its not hard to see the same death for the MMO. Guilds will have no need to trade with eachother, markets will be pointless beyond sales to crown, besides the main groups the map will be desolate and empty, and people bait and switched into thinking this was a sandbox style MMO will refund and disappear.

I love this game, i loved YO and spent that whole time thinking, 64 just isnt enough people, waited for the MMO, have at least 30 friends i made and they were all excited, besides me and my bro, none of them are interested in playing anymore, reading forums, the hate on smallman and loss of sandbox survival, they are done. I cant be the only one who has experienced this.

Give personal claims the ability to sacrifice items, or lower the coin to cell cost of upkeep, encourage ALL playstyles , with benefits to the preferred style (guilds function better, nuff said)

[Leorusty]

well said +1

[Pembo62]

I have to agree with Norsegryphon. I have started playing on a server with 2 other friends. we have established trade with a friendly guild nearby as we are far away from the centre, but this isnt enough to get by. our buildings burn because we cant make our land claim big enough. all we want is the ability to be able to put up basic walls around our house in a small area and be able to manage trade with nearby guilds. but with the current land claim mechanics for smaller groups this seems like it would be impossible on a long term basis and puts me off purchase off the MMO.

[Hodo]

I have to agree with Norsegryphon. I have started playing on a server with 2 other friends. we have established trade with a friendly guild nearby as we are far away from the centre, but this isnt enough to get by. our buildings burn because we cant make our land claim big enough. all we want is the ability to be able to put up basic walls around our house in a small area and be able to manage trade with nearby guilds. but with the current land claim mechanics for smaller groups this seems like it would be impossible on a long term basis and puts me off purchase off the MMO.

No offense, then you should join that guild and live on their realm claim.

[Macpharlan]

I have to agree with Norsegryphon. I have started playing on a server with 2 other friends. we have established trade with a friendly guild nearby as we are far away from the centre, but this isnt enough to get by. our buildings burn because we cant make our land claim big enough. all we want is the ability to be able to put up basic walls around our house in a small area and be able to manage trade with nearby guilds. but with the current land claim mechanics for smaller groups this seems like it would be impossible on a long term basis and puts me off purchase off the MMO.

No offense, then you should join that guild and live on their realm claim.

Then what is the point of the game if it only caters to guilds? It is supposed to be for different sized groups, they even name them, a 'band' would be that smaller than a guild, mercs or other small group, but you need to allow them to survive and grow.