Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Bobik]

If they had started an aggression first - they will be marked as criminals (grey color). So anyone will be able to attack them without fear of loosing alignment. It does not really matter if you're victim of that aggression that is fighting back or just a passer by who wants to get involved.

[Makiol]

What is this marker?

[Thokan]

What is this marker?

Player gets flagged as criminal (grey). The visual indicator usually is that their on-screen name changes color.

[Bobik]

What is this marker?

Player gets flagged as criminal (grey). The visual indicator usually is that their on-screen name changes color.

[PabloX]

Will claimed lands under siege have their alignment rules altered?

The official war declaration prevents the attackers and defenders from incurring alignment loss when killing each other.

However, given that in sieges, there may very well be mercenaries, and other outside forces who are simply going where the action is. Which unfortunately puts the attacking and defending realms in the "awkward" situation that they must kill these individuals in the interest of their siege offense/defense but incur an alignment penalty each time.

For example: Individual decides to merc himself out to the attackers in a siege BUT has no official affiliation with them. He joins them in the attack and is killed in the strike by a defender (who now incurs a penalty if they struck first even though it was in defense of a siege)

I realize if the "merc" attacks first they will be marked the criminal but having to think about that in the defense of your castle on your lands (your laws) during a siege may be unreasonable. I can also see it being exploited for both sides if that is the case for as marginal or significant benefit it may provide.

[Sting5]

For example: Individual decides to merc himself out to the attackers in a siege BUT has no official affiliation with them. He joins them in the attack and is killed in the strike by a defender (who now incurs a penalty if they struck first even though it was in defense of a siege)

I am sure it's not hard to script mercenaries list into the clan management - if You join clan squad for war actions, manager adds You into "mercenaries" list, so that You would be treated as clan member considering penalties.

[Bobik]

Will claimed lands under siege have their alignment rules altered?

The official war declaration prevents the attackers and defenders from incurring alignment loss when killing each other.

However, given that in sieges, there may very well be mercenaries, and other outside forces who are simply going where the action is. Which unfortunately puts the attacking and defending realms in the "awkward" situation that they must kill these individuals in the interest of their siege offense/defense but incur an alignment penalty each time.

For example: Individual decides to merc himself out to the attackers in a siege BUT has no official affiliation with them. He joins them in the attack and is killed in the strike by a defender (who now incurs a penalty if they struck first even though it was in defense of a siege)

I realize if the "merc" attacks first they will be marked the criminal but having to think about that in the defense of your castle on your lands (your laws) during a siege may be unreasonable. I can also see it being exploited for both sides if that is the case for as marginal or significant benefit it may provide.

Altering alignment rules in a certain area during siege events might be a good idea. Otherwise, declaring a war on any guild that you see in enemy lines might be really long and hard. We will see how things will turn out, maybe it will be easier to move sieges into same instanced environment as battles are. Then managing all rules and altering alignment system will be much easier.

[Proximo]

Yea having non flagged people in a siege puts the defenders in a very hard position. How would a defender hold the wall if a random person could climb a ladder and block you or stab you in the back since you cannot strike first without penalty.

In the game Lineage 2 anyone entering a large area around the castle during a siege would become flagged.

[deutch]

I think any (hostile guild or passer) entered the territory of another guild (even during the siege), already obtained the offender and can beat the first defender, without fear of punishment. Or not?

[Dailato]

Here's a quick conundrum for you, imagine this situation:

A horseman is charging you down, you have a spear available, but you don't want to take alignment penalty.

If you let the horse hit you first you will lose the advantage of having your spear, and with horse alpha-strike damage probably being very high, will most likely lose the fight near-instant.

If you DO use spear, you maybe win the fight, but suddenly YOU are the aggresor, and everyone can dog-pile you without worrying about alignment.

Maybe you could use a shield but, against a couched lance or similar attack? I don't know... it would also force you to use a one-handed weapon, putting you at a big disadvantage once more.

In melee you can usually still "eat" the first hit but reducing damage with block or parry, but against a horse? Seems alot more painful and disadvantageous than normal.

So how to solve this situation? If you make bracing against a charge not count as aggression then you suddenly have walls of people with spears near every chokepoint, demanding tribute. If you don't though, how can you defend yourself from riders without alignment penalty? I know in old times everyone that rode a horse was nobility so you'd get a bad rep just for defending yourself, but this is surely not the case in LiF P.

Anyone got ideas on this?

Yours truly -The Pope

[Bobik]

There are numerous options:
1. Avoid that fight
2. try to dodge the lance and get a minor knockback damage from a horse itself, thus triggering a criminal flag on that horseman
3. be the one who had dealt that major damage, but deal no additional damage until you're not a criminal no more. Criminal duration depend on alignment loss (e.g. how hard is that crime) and on recidive flag. So assault (dealing damage to nonCriminal nonEvil character) will cause you to lose only 2 alignment points and you will be a criminal for about 10 seconds.

Anyway, described situation is equal for both of you. Either horseman will deal a first blow, will be an aggressor, will lose a lot of alignment but will get a kill and your loot. Or it will be you who will be an aggressor, will lose an alignment, but will stay alive and get his loot. Just pick one option

Also, there is no certain answer for such situation even in real life with its courts, legislature and so on. In a court that horseman might say that he was just heating up his horse and checking lance balance and he had never had an intention to attack you. He does not know why you've sticked you pike into his horse and you're a clearly an aggressor and need to compensate all healing bills and buy him a new horse

There will be a lot of situations that might seem not fair. So you should just predict them, know the game rules and mechanics and just make a most right choice in a current situation.

[Proximo]

It really depends on how effective blocking is. If you skewer his horse in 1 hit and then he comes at you while your still flagged you'll need to defend yourself until you de-flag.

[JoeCold]

Perhaps there could be an exception to a defensive stand? Either have an actual defensive stand such as couching with a spear, for example, or simply call a period of non-movement (1 or 1.5 sec) a defensive stand. If you're defensive, then you aren't the aggressor even if you do hit first. Or, better yet, the strike made defensively doesn't even "count" in terms of who struck first. You're charged, you defend yourself with a good defensive hit (or a bad one, lol), and whether or not anyone takes an alignment hit depends on whether the fight is continued and who strikes first from there.

Theoretically, if both hit on the charge, regardless of who hit first the charger would be the aggressor because his hit would be the only one that "counts".

[Kossako]

This thread makes me a little worried.

I planned to play as bow user since I really like it in DF. As bow user my only advantage is distance. With such alignment mechanics I need to wait for horse charge or anyone else to shorten range or loose alignment trying to defend myself.

Right now even if there will be one such situation daily and I will be loosing -2 alignment I can only get 1 alignment per day. After 3 months I will be at -100 no matter what and I seriously doubt I would need to defend myself only once a day.

Maybe some zones where you are not loosing any alignment would be better? Like EVE 0.0 space.

[BartusPL]

All people will be marked if they are in your land, and You can atack(defend your land) them without aligment losing, if I understood correctly.

[Kossako]

All people will be marked if they are in your land, and You can atack(defend your land) them without aligment losing, if I understood correctly.

You can Claim up to 250 cells. that's like 16 x 16 square. Your land will only serve as buildings location. Everything else you will be doing outside of it thus vulnerable to attacks.

[Sting5]

This thread makes me a little worried.

I planned to play as bow user since I really like it in DF. As bow user my only advantage is distance. With such alignment mechanics I need to wait for horse charge or anyone else to shorten range or loose alignment trying to defend myself.

Right now even if there will be one such situation daily and I will be loosing -2 alignment I can only get 1 alignment per day. After 3 months I will be at -100 no matter what and I seriously doubt I would need to defend myself only once a day.

Maybe some zones where you are not loosing any alignment would be better? Like EVE 0.0 space.

Haven't even thought about this previously, but it makes sense. Ranged weapons are no good if You don't have a melee weapon as secondary. Seems that ranged weapons can be only effectively used in guild wars and/or offences (if You want to start on upper hand position that is.)

[Bobik]

Well, about all those bow disadvantage in alignment system. alignment system will stay as it is. First one who dealt damage - is an aggressor.
There is no way in game and even in real life to tell if that charging knight was charging you or a boar behind your back or was just passing around. If you will shoot him first - you are an aggressor and it is perfectly right.
To avoid such situations - have a melee weapon with you, have a team mate with you, don't wander far, try to be knocked down by his horse, rather then hit with his couched lance - there are plenty of options.
Well, get yourself into an official war and do not think about alignment in that case.
We will think about lawless lands, but can not promise them soon.

[En_Dotter]

Bobik, cant u put a witness system of some sort?
Like if there is nobody there is no penalty. After all renown and infamy comes from the stories and tales about someone or an organization not by some divine intervention.
I know this would be hardcore and would encourage ambushes when someone is alone, but there is a latin proverb - testis unus testis nullus (it was also used in law for some time in the ancient rome )

(I know u wont implement this but i had to say it)

[SaresITA89]

a solution

If a guild wants to play in a mercenary, it means that it is not present in the politics of the game.
Why not ally with the guild momentanamente who assumed to share the enemies of the guild and not lose alignment?

[Telakh]

Now it is time to ask yourself what meaning do you put in to ingame alignment?

Is it your role's karma of some sort?
Or criminal statistics for kill lists?
Or ballance subsystem to keep agressive primates at an adequate quantity. Because in this case all these suggestions are total crap.
My apologises for being harsh.

[Airco]

what about religion,
kill the guy , go to church, ask for forgiveness, your forgiven, clean slate , move on
lets face it, it would add a huge part of realism to the game.

other note, claimd land marked blue (to prevent theft ect) and than a exterrior circel marked gray (where kill's do not effect allignment) wich go's further than the toughest bow can shoot or trebuchet can breach (bhut just on the edge of there range not another 10meters) and beyond that circel free land where the allignment system works.

bhut atleast inplement a quest of some sort where players which have murder on there name can pay for there crime's and have a clean sheet, alls your one evil day where u just have a date whit ruins your entire game despite the fact your normaly a being

upon that, yesterday i had a encounter whit a agressive player, i was not wearing armor and he shot me whit a bow in the chest doing 85dam in 1 hit, good luck recovering from that if u want to win the battle (i ran and he lost me) bhut if i want to tay revenge now and iam gone take allignment drop

[HolyAvengerOne]

Hey guys,

Was looking at the calculation found in this wiki page (https://lifeisfeudal.gamepedia.com/Alignment -- which refers to the current thread) and wondering if anyone knows exactly what the calculation is supposed to be for MMO? I've heard a few people report a lot more than 5-6 SP lost at around 0-5 alignment.

Anyone has an experience a bit more detailed to share on that?